Rock and Roll Hall Fame Class of 2020 is...

Nobody is making the argument that Whitney Houston belongs in more or less than any other artist. Just that she’s just as obviously in the Rock & Roll tradition of soul music that Aretha Franklin and dozens of other soul artists that are already in the Hall. If you don’t think it’s rock, then call it roll. It’s the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, not the rock radio hall of fame.

 

The Hall has included soul artists from day one, and rightfully so.

 

Key point @ 11:38: No reason for the fan ballot with these results. The Hall doesn't give a s**t what the people want.

 

I have to agree with those who say Whitney Houston is not rock and had little influence on rock. But pop and hip-hop are far more relevant to today’s younger audiences than rock music is and if the HoF is to remain viable it has to recognize some artists who don’t fall under strict definitions of rock music. Whitney Houston is a household name with an incredible voice. Her records sold millions. She was one of the most important artists in the 80s and early 90s. That is why she is being inducted. And her induction will open the door for other more-pop-less-rock artists to get in.

 

I wasn't posting in support of hall of fame choices. I don't even know who is already in the hall of fame without looking it up. I was just saying that lots of 60s and 70s soul, R&B and funk artists had a big influence on rock. Not many 80s and beyond contemporary R&B, dance pop etc. artists did.

 

Wonderful! I only ever hear of the horrible inclusions like Bon Jovi! It's probably not as bad as I imagine.

 

Landau and Azoff are powerful industry figures. It’s kissing the ring.

Landau almost managed to castrate the MC5 when he produced BACK IN THE USA, so it can’t be for his production skills, and he gets in before the 5.

 

Very true. The influence of soul on Jimi Hendrix is immense. Have You Ever Been To Electric Ladyland is an impression of The Impressions!

 

it is in fact.

 

I think you're getting at the crux of the matter.

If you choose to take the RRHOF seriously, your gonna be endlessly disappointed.

If you view it as a tourist attraction, TV spectacle and t-shirt purveyor, it makes much more sense.

In the latter context - and I'm not being facetious in any way - of course you induct Whitney and Biggie. It's smart business.

 

Right there: "More than" is where you're drawing spurious conclusions. I don't think anyone is less worthy of being there simply because they haven't been inducted yet, but since the Hall is framed competitively by its somewhat exclusive nature, anyone who says "well, I think she is a good choice" is going to be heard by the aggrieved factions whose favourites aren't in there yet as "your guys are less important than her". Not what was actually said! She is a huge influence on later generations, had a profound impact on the industry, has roots in the soul revolution that influenced her contemporaries and is recognized as a bedrock by a long list of artists already in the Hall. Anyone who says "she isn't Rock and therefore doesn't qualify" ignores all of that for the sake of a reductive argument

 

Whitney Houston is not a rock artist nor is she a rock and roll artist. Period. Nor has she ever been described as such.

If you want to put her in a soul, r and b hall of fame or a pop hall of fame then by all means.

Jazz contributed to rock in its early years in particular. Yet it is obvious that bebop musicians (from the 1980s no less) are far more appropriate in a jazz hall of fame rather than a rock hall of fame.

What is fascinating to me is the obvious distaste which is clearly ideologically driven that some have here for enormous subgenres of rock ('white guy guitar rock' and 'classic rock radio' being 2 of the preferred slurs) while they argue for inclusion of non rock musicians.


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Do you think James Brown, Ray Charles, Al Green, Otis Redding, Sam Cooke and Aretha Franklin are Rock 'n' Roll artists?

They are all in the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame. Some of them from YEAR ONE of the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame. So, yeah, you lost this argument thirty-four years ago. How about Fats Domino? Is he Rock 'n' Roll?

 

The only good news for somebody named Houston this week.

 

There's no 'reductive argument.' Whitney Houston didn't make rock, wasn't considered rock when she was alive and has nothing to do with rock music. If there weren't this campaign, no one would have spent a moment thinking about her in a rock context.

The fact that she can be considered with a straight face for a rock hall when huge rock bands with far more influence IN ROCK ITSELF for decades are routinely ignored, is a clear sign that this is a decision which has nothing to do with rock based criteria. It's about commerce of course but the incoherent attempts at defending it on ideological grounds with discussions of 'white guys' are beyond risible.

 

Check out Rick Wakeman during Yes induction speech. He is hilarious.

 

I love rock music and a vast amount of my music collection is rock, but the reverence that's put upon that genre above most others is annoying. The term 'Classic Rock' is horrible.

 

The New York Dolls ain't in either, and their influence on punk and hard rock is incalculable.

 

Ok, you're right about Whitney, but I also think more people were rooting for her and hoping she was going to overcome her demons and come back stronger than before. Dionne never was like that, she was just seen as a kooky star from the 60s who hung out with psychics, plus the whole expose of her pocketing a lot of the "That's What Friends Are For" money harmed her worse than any drugged out Whitney interviews did. It made Dionne look like a bad person

Plus Whitney had the early death tragedy thing that was in her favor (unfortunately). Just like Michael Jackson, a tragic early death makes people forgive and forget and you want to surround yourself with the good times. With Whitney, it immediately went from "kiss my ass!!!" to recollecting the first time you heard I Will Always Love You or the first time you saw the video for I Wanna Dance With Somebody. It erased all the negativity

 

I didn't 'lose this argument' as the Hall doesn't magically transform non-rock artists into rock ones. If they want to put people in there, they can do it for all of eternity and it wouldn't change a thing.

You don't appear to understand what it means to make a coherent argument. Those artists are not and were not rock artists regardless of the PR offensive around the Hall.

It's no reflection on their music's quality to note this fact any more than it is a reflection on the quality of Mahler's music to say he didn't write baroque music or that Iron Maiden aren't a funk band even though funk and hard rock can eventually be traced back to some common tributaries.

 

I couldn't stand Whitney Houston when she was at the peak of her fame and she's not my thing now, but there's no point in carrying that negativity when she's gone and her music isn't everywhere anymore. It's a tragedy how it all ended up for her. Whether or not I liked them it's truly saddens me when a powerful star like that dies far too young. As I'm sure it does for most people.

 

Go Trent go!

A good time for NIN to get in - especially given their involvement in last year's most popular song in the world (Old Town Road).

 

I said not even one word about reverence. What I see is a small group of people who feel it's ok to speak disparagingly about very large rock subgenres while extolling music which has nothing to do with rock yet which is being celebrated in what theoretically is a rock context.

 

The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame has already existed for more than thirty years, and its been inclusive from the start. Why don’t you go off and start your own Rock Hall of Fame tailored to your ideological agenda that includes only what you consider rock?

I guarantee if such a thing existed, it wouldn’t be seen as anywhere near high an honor as the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, including by those who would fit your narrow definition.

 

Ray Charles has more to do with rock 'n' roll than Iron Maiden and I'm a big fan of both.