Gosh! 105 pages! So many different opinions. I bought the 2010 Sanctuary digipak CD of Masters Of Reality before I knew that there were so many different versions, just bought the album and that's the version that arrived. Sounds pretty darn good to me. A couple of brief moments where it's a little harsh but overall it's warm and detailed and I like it a lot. I'm looking to buy Paranoid, Vol4 and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath on CD. Regular versions (not deluxe). I don't understand the techy jargon in a lot of the posts here. My CD player can play SACD's. I'd rather not fork out too much dosh if I can help it. Are the 2009/2010 Sanctuary versions of these sonically similar to the Masters Of Reality CD? That'd be good enough for me.
Are you sure your CD player can play SACDs? or did you mean SHM-CDs? Anyway, the 2009 Sanctuary Vol4 and SBS are very good, Paranoid isn't. If you want the best overall sound for Paranoid and don't mind having a few drop-outs on Iron Man, check out the 1986 Intercord CD; if you don't want the drop-outs even if the overall sound of the CD is not quite as perfect as on the Intercord (IMO, of course), I recommend the Japan 33PD-353 (if you like darker sound) or TECP 23893 (if you like the sound to be a little less dark). If you'd like me to send you sound samples from all of these, send me a PM and let me know which format (FLAC, WAV, MP3...?) and which songs you'd prefer for the samples.
It's a Marantz CD5005 which I've just bought as recommended by folks on the forum (many thanks, sounds great) and although I haven't got any SACD's it does state in the spec that it can play them. Thanks for the recommendations. Is the drop out badly noticeable? I don't listen on headphones. I'll take your word on the CD variations, so no need for samples, but appreciate the offer.
For a thorough listener the drop-outs (it is not just one) are quite noticeable. Want a sound sample of those? Also, be aware that there are Russian pirate copies of the Intercord CD available that are claimed to be digitally identical to the original. The disc looks a little different though. Original: Black Sabbath - Paranoid Pirate: Black Sabbath - Paranoid
Question: Are you saying that these are not digitally identical to one another? Another poster who compared the pirated copy to the original stated they sounded the same... just curious.
I went ahead and ordered the entire slew of Deluxe Editions, from S/T through The Eternal Idol. Can't wait to put them through a good listening test or two. Is there any bad sounding disc out of this bunch? I think I've read Paranoid and Live Evil wasn't that good.
I've heard s/t through Mob Rules + Dehumanizer (no Live Evil)`. The only ones I find bad are Paranoid, Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die. The latter two being especially bad.
Oh, forgot to mention I also picked up Dehumanizer. It’s some SHM-CD version of it though. I’d much rather prefer the Europe version though so I could get the Deluxe Edition sleeve
I am assuming they are identical to each other. I believe it was sathvyre who said they were. The reason why I used the term "claimed" was that I didn't check them myself, plus I cannot 100% rule out that their are different pirated versions out there rather than just one. Got your message, thanks. Will reply ASAP. Absolutely not. AFAIK, there is only one mastering of HC.
Can anyone explain as far as I understand the remasters 1996 Japan TECW - 2018xx and Teichiku 1996 UK ESM CD 3хх Castle must be the same? On the Japan TECW - 2018xx is indicated Castle. Why don't they match?
I just had a look at MOR TECW-20144 vs. ESM CD 303. Peak and DR values are all identical, and the two tracks I compared with Foobar2000 Binary Comparator were digitally identical after correction for offset. If there are other albums that differ, I guess it simply means that the mastering was altered after Teichiku purchased them from Castle. Since both series of releases are pretty much obsolete today because there are much better-sounding masterings available, it doesn't really matter...
They are not same Master Of Reality [1996 UK ESM CD 303 Castle] TOC of the extracted CD Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector --------------------------------------------------------- 1 | 0:00.00 | 5:05.25 | 0 | 22899 2 | 5:05.25 | 5:26.62 | 22900 | 47411 3 | 10:32.12 | 0:28.20 | 47412 | 49531 4 | 11:00.32 | 5:17.43 | 49532 | 73349 5 | 16:18.00 | 1:31.05 | 73350 | 80179 6 | 17:49.05 | 5:26.32 | 80180 | 104661 7 | 23:15.37 | 5:02.30 | 104662 | 127341 8 | 28:17.67 | 6:11.63 | 127342 | 155229 Master Of Reality [1996 Japan TECW-20144 Teichiku] Трек | Старт | Длительность | Начальный сектор | Конечный сектор --------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | 0:00.00 | 5:05.65 | 0 | 22939 2 | 5:05.65 | 5:26.60 | 22940 | 47449 3 | 10:32.50 | 0:28.18 | 47450 | 49567 4 | 11:00.68 | 5:17.45 | 49568 | 73387 5 | 16:18.38 | 1:31.05 | 73388 | 80217 6 | 17:49.43 | 5:26.35 | 80218 | 104702 7 | 23:16.03 | 5:02.27 | 104703 | 127379 8 | 28:18.30 | 6:12.20 | 127380 | 155299
...though in order to avoid confusion, let's not forget that a second Pearce remaster has been released since (in 2012). The 2009 one is much better though.
To be honest, the only 2012/2016 I like is TE... Speaking of which, that sounds like a great subject for my new poll! Stay tuned...
Comparing the five Iron Man samples you sent. I’m listening (in a treated room) through studio monitors that are somewhat unforgiving. If a track is well mixed and mastered it sounds glorious, but if not it can sound pretty awful on them as they don’t tend to flatter the sound in any way. First thing I noticed is that the overall volumes of the CD samples are vastly different, by about 5db or more from loudest to quietest. That’s a lot. I loaded all the samples into my DAW (Logic Pro X) so that I could match levels (which isn’t a foolproof way of comparing because it doesn’t really take into account any differences in sound that my hi-fi’s volume control might make at different settings, but at least allows me to compare the source material side by side). The track lengths are a little different on each CD, which means that the speed and pitch are a little different I guess. Not so much that it’s noticeable though. Different tape machines at the mastering stage I suppose. I didn’t listen at mega volume as that would fatigue my ears too quickly to make any sound judgement. 1. 1986 West Germany Intercord. Punchy sounding. A tiny bit brighter than I’d like on my system, but it has some rock’n’roll energy to it. A little compressed, but the soundstage is good. Cymbals sound natural and not hyped like some of the others. Guitars are a tad piercing at times but not too bad. My ears are old ears and a youngster might not have any problems with it. So my guess is there's less emphasis on top end but more emphasis on upper mids, and that’s probably what makes it sound punchy, and the drums cut through well. Definitely a rock record. 2. 1987 Japan 33PD-353. More dymanic range on this than the Intercord. This is the darkest / warmest sounding of the samples. But it’s perhaps a bit too dark as the bass is getting a bit lost in the mix at times and overall it seems to lack a little bit of energy for that reason. However, it would probably be the least ear fatiguing if listening to the whole album and certainly a CD that you could crank the volume up and enjoy. This one perhaps sounds the most like vinyl to me, although I no longer have my vinyl versions to compare to (darn got stolen many years ago). 3. 1991 Japan TECP. This appears to have the most dynamic range, but there’s not much in it between this and the 1987 Japan. It’s a bit brighter and the bass really jumps out on this in a good way. Cymbals sound a little hyped in comparison to the previous two, but not too bad and the drums sound good overall. It’s a nice balance of all the elements. 4. 2010 Japan SHM-SACD. It’s quite hi-fidelity, but a bit bright sounding to me. Cymbals are a bit hyped and perhaps detract from the guitars, but overall a pretty good sound. 5. Warner Rhino 2016. Does not sound good to my ears. Harsh and congested. Looking at the levels it is clearly over compressed and lacking dynamics. Brings out some details, but that’s no good if it sounds bad. So, what’s best? Well, I’d like the hi-fidelity of the 2010 Japan SACD, the rock’n’roll punch of the 1986 Intercord, the crankable warmth of the 1987 Japan and the overall balance of the 1991 Japan TECP. Darn!
Awesome comparison, thank you very much! The TECP is probably a remastered copy of the 33PD-353. How noticeable/distracting/annoying did you find the Iron Man drop-outs on the Intercord?
Not particularly. It was ok. Barely noticed it other than a slight blip at the start. But I didn't listen to all five back to back as that's not a good way to compare. I selected parts of it, put it on repeat and compared those, so I'll have to have another listen to see if I can hear them. But not now as my ears are worn out from it all. Lol. I want to still like the song.
