Roland's favorite CD versions of Black Sabbath albums

Yes, the Creative Souds s/t CD sounds strange (boosted highs). I made a CD-R of it just like Roland advised, with the flags on and it sounded substantially different (and better of course ).

 

Yes, since the PE flag is missing on he original CD, so your CD player has no way of detecting that it has to apply de-emphasis.

 

I don't know since I haven't heard the 1991 Castle, but it is well possible that they "added something" to the mastering, even if it is still from the same old original tape transfer.

 

They are not THAT hard to find in my experience, but you probably have to look in Europe (try eBay in UK or Germany). For the S/T and Paranoid, the first Japanese pressing is really good, but it is definitely harder to find than the Castles.

For MoR and SBS, I can't really recommend any other versions, since I really like the Castles the best.

 

That's really weird.

So almost everyone who has bought that cd over these many years has no idea they have a bad-sounding defective disc?

 

OK, I'll keep looking. But ... would the '96 Castles do in a pinch?

 

That is weird indeed... I doubt many have bought these as they don't look very legitimate and I haven't seen these in stores here. Maybe they didn't press them so many copies. The disc doesn't necessarily sound defective, maybe some have thought it was just a bad mastering

As for the 1986 Castles, I had some problems finding them from forum's classifieds and eBay. All eBay sellers don't put on the correct disc information the listing description. I haven't seen these in used CD stores around here either, which is a bit strange since many other early Castle CDs are very common since many people dumb them for the new remasters.

 

Live Evil on Castle remastered is not very good - it's missing the highs on one channel for a significant portion of the disc (hopefully that has been fixed), cuts off banter and doesn't sound as good as the Warners.

 

Much as I love Dio, I think his stage banter is awful. Cutting out the inane chatter doesn't bother me at all, but messing up the sound of the songs does.

 

yes, it's a bit strange, I thought they were more common ,in fact I still remember when they were in print...... however they are not that easy to find even in england

 

You have to ask the seller for the catalog number (if it starts with CLACD or NELCD). The NELCD ones have the printed on "sticker" on the fron which says "bonus live track". But some of the WG Vertigos also have such a sticker design, although it looks a little different.

 

I snatched a 32PD- 1st pressing of Heaven&Hell on Ebay for $17!

The seller says it's VG+ according to the forum's grading and I hope it really turns out to be at least that. Will be interesting to compare it to my 23PD- 2nd pressing when it arrives

 

Let us know how these compare!

 

i found a Black Sabbath "Greatest Hits" CD today. it's a Castle Communications (The Compact Collection) disc with catalog number PACD 005. cover is a painting (looks like Bosch maybe?). the back says "This Compilation P&C Castle Communications Australasia." there are 11 tracks. any thoughts on this CD? i didn't see anything about it in the archives.

 

Originally Posted by rjstauber

5. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
My favorite version is also the 1986 Castle CD. I prefer it over the 1st Japanese pressing (23PD).

 

Can you (or rjstauber) please comment why you prefer the Castle?

I do have the 23PD- one and don't really like the way Ozzy's voice sounds, sort of shrieking. Could be the recording itself, though..

 

Well, you already gave the explanation. It's not the recording.

 

Just checked last night. Live At Last on Japanese Vertigo (23PD-124) uses the WG Vertigo mastering by Hans Brethouwer.

 

Thanks, nice to know. I did wonder what the source was for this disc, since (apparently) the other 23PD Sabbath CDs used the mastering from the old WB CDs (and WB never released Live At Last in any format). The Japanese Vertigo CD of Seventh Star (PHCR-2055) seems to use the same mastering as the WG Vertigo CD. And I know I posted it in the other Sabbath thread, but my Japanese Vertigo CD of Born Again (PHCR-2054) seems to use a different mastering than the WG Vertigo CD (which was mastered by Hans Brethouwer). The peak levels are different, and the track indexes are in different places for some songs. Hiss is more audible at the beginning and end of the songs on the Japanese Vertigo CD. Honestly I'm not sure which one I prefer -- the mix sucks in either case. Hopefully someone can A/B and offer some better insight.

I just received the '86 Castle CD of Paranoid. It sounds very nice. I did notice that there are several major dropouts in "Iron Man" around the 1:00 to 1:15 mark. But I haven't listened to the entire disc, so there could be more. This is the only '86 Castle CD I've heard with noticable dropouts (I haven't heard the Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage ones yet). I also got the '86 Castle CD of the first album, and it sounds very nice too. I'm not quite sure if I like these CDs or the 33PD-353 CD more. Both are great sounding CDs, but I lean more towards the 33PD CD for Paranoid only because it doesn't have those dropouts in "Iron Man". I'm undecided on the first album. Now I just need to get ahold of that Creative Sounds CD of the first album that Roland wrote about... and the '86 Castle of SBS as well...

Roland's recommendations have been spot-on IMO. I'm looking forward to his Uriah Heep thread. Nazareth would be nice too.

 

I personally have not heard the 23PD you own, but after buying and listening to the 1986 Castle, I can't see how anything could sound more correct. I had another Castle issue previous to the 86 Castle and it paled in comparsion.

 

Hey Roland, thanks for the recommendations.

I have a question about the Creative Sounds CD for the first album, Black Sabbath. I just picked one up on ebay and it turned out to be brand new and sealed in plastic. The catalog # is 6006-2 and the matrix reads "CSI-6006-2 BLACK SABBATH AAAK5230236A".

Aside from needing de-emphasis, I think the disc sounds great. In other words, I'm not hearing the tape problem with the first few tracks. What should I be listening for?

Also, the CD lists 6 tracks but there are only 5 on the disc. Can you explain the discrepancy?

Finally, can you list all the tracks you use from the Japanes 2-fer and the Creative Sounds version, stating which tracks comes from which version, to create your best version of the album?

 

My Creative Sounds CD only lists five tracks, both on the back cover as well as on the CD. My matrix number is also a little different. The total playing time of my CD is 39:25.

The problem with the tape can be best heard when you play the Creative Sounds CD and either the early Castle or the 1st Japanese pressing (twofer) simultaneously on two CD players (in sync) and go back and forth. When you start out with the title track, the (PE corrected) CD-R of the Creative Sounds CD sounds really mind-bogling and literally blows the Castle or 1st Japanese "away". Then, around 4 minutes or so into the song, the Creative Sounds CD becomes a little veiled. It starts out subtle, so I can't put my finger down when it exactly starts, but it's definitely there by the time the fast part of the song starts (even before then). All of a sudden, the Creative Sounds CD doesn't sound better than the early Castle anymore, due to that veiled sound.

You can also hear the tape problem when the drums (hi-hat) kicks in during The Wizard, it's almost like a pumping sound. The problem is still there at the beginning of Behind the Wall of Sleep, and I can't say for sure when it is completely gone. It might not be present anymore during N.I.B.

Side 2 of the original album is definitely o.k. again.

I just made myself a CD-R with the complete Creative Sounds CD, followed by the complete early Castle CD.

If you just want to have each song once, you can take the first side from the album of the early Castle CD and then take the second side from the Creative Sounds, then use Evil Woman from the early Castle as the last track or so.

You could also put some tracks in from the 1st Japanese pressing. I am not yet sure if I like the early Castle better for the first side of the album or the 1st Japanese pressing.

Since the Castle also uses pre-emphasis (so the PE flag also needs to be set on a CD-R of that CD), I just used the Creative Sounds and the Castle.

If you want to take more time, you could probably cross-fade the songs from the Castle with the Creative Sounds during the beginning of N.I.B., or make some other kind of nice edit if you want to use N.I.B. from the Creative Sounds CD (I would check first in a direct comparison if the tape problem is gone during N.I.B. already, but I think it is).

I just listened again, and the tape problem seems to be gone around 2 minutes into Behind the Wall of Sleep. When the break starts again at around 2:35 into the song, it's definitely cleared up again compared to the beginning of the song.

Be careful when you directly compare it to the Castle CD, since the Castle is a little brighter, so don't confuse that with the "pumping" sound which I attribute to some azimuth problem (tape alignment). By around 2:30 into Behind the Wall of Sleep, I definitely prefer the Creative Sounds CD again. It has a much nice midrange in my opinion and sounds so cool and powerful. I am always reminded of Steve's work when I hear that kind of midrange magic.

You can experiment yourself a little bit. If you can manage to get a nice edit for N.I.B., I would recommend using N.I.B. from the Creative Sounds CD again.

The tape problem on the Creative Sounds CD is not that major, and I can still enjoy listening to the complete album on the Creative Sounds CD.

Hope that helps.

 

Thanks, I'll try snyching up the Creative Sounds with the Japanese first and try to hear it. If I posted a sample, could you tell me if you hear the tape problem? With the different matrix and track listing (N.I.B. is separately and erroneously listed as track 4), there's some chance I have a different mastering. Let me know which part to post, and I'll do it.

 

If you post "Behind the Wall of Sleep" from beginning to around 3:00 minutes, I should be able to hear it. An mp3 file would be sufficient.

 

Do the Castle CDs have live bonus tracks? I have seen few Castle CDs but am not sure if it is the praised version. Also I wonder if there is difference in mastering between Castle CDs made in UK and made in France.

Speaking of Sabotage - every CD I had of this album have some issue with tape or something - I mean side two of album sounds different than side one.
Maybe they made master tapes for two sides in two different session?