Roland's favorite CD versions of Black Sabbath albums

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by rjstauber, Jun 8, 2007.

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  1. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF
    I'll try to post an EAC log later. There is no evidence that any stock WB Sabbath discs have ever been remastered, but you never know...

    BUT...

    I found a better version of Never Say Die recently. It's on the Spectrum label out of Germany. Less bright, absolutely beautiful. I've been meaning to start a thread about it and post samples. The WB Cd sounds top end boosted in comparison. The Spectrum CD does not match any other disc I've found, including the WG Vertigo. It appears it was licensed from Castle, so they may well have gotten a great tape but instead of having Hans Brethouwer EQ it to death like WG Vertigo tended to do, it was probably rubn flat.
     
  2. rjstauber

    rjstauber Senior Member Thread Starter

    Jeff, very interesting. Would love to hear some clips.

    I think Heaven And Hell was also released on Spectrum. Have you every heard that one?
     
  3. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF

    No, but I am very interested in it.
     
  4. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF
  5. jon9091

    jon9091 Master Of Reality

    Location:
    Midwest
  6. agentalbert

    agentalbert Senior Member

    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
  7. rjstauber

    rjstauber Senior Member Thread Starter

    Interesting. The Creative Sounds is definitely a different mastering than the early Castle CD with pre-emphasis, and the Creative Sounds does not have PE nor is it missing a PE flag.

    On the other hand, what happened to the tape on the Creative Sounds after 0:51 into the song. Sounds badly mangled, doesn't it? Does this go away after a short amount of time?
     
  8. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF
    As far as we know (it hasn't been confirmed for all of them), the 1991 Castles are vastly inferior to the 1986 issues. The MoR I heard from the Castle Legends series had loads of top end boost, but I am still uncertain whether it was a result of the PE flag being incorrectly set.

    For Sabotage, you need the WB disc anyway, as the Castle suffers from tape damage during Symptom and The Writ.
     
  9. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF

    I'll check it. Don't recall.
     
  10. imagnrywar

    imagnrywar Senior Member

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Jeff, I'm still curious about what caused you to change your views on the early Castle MoR, as I posted here:

    http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=3109066#post3109066

    I picked up the '86 Castle of MoR recently and the first time I listened to it on my stereo, I was surprised by how muddy and indistinct it sounded. Easy on the ears at loud volumes, but with a rather muffled sound that I'd tend to associate with high-gen tapes or NR (after listening, I re-read some of the Sabbath threads here and found that you expressed similar views early on).
    But I recently ripped it with EAC and then compared it to the '96 Castle on headphones, and found that it sounded more natural than the remaster. Perhaps my regular CD player isn't handling the PE correctly.
     
  11. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF
    Not sure. The post you mention was well over a year ago. All I can say is that having heard the 1986 Castle of MoR with a bit more seasoned ear, I am satisfied with it. It is duller, and very bass heavy. It's easy to tell if PE is decoding correctly by Ward's drums. When decoding properly, they are very tight, and not tinny. They will be too bright if PE isn't decoded.
     
  12. jon9091

    jon9091 Master Of Reality

    Location:
    Midwest
    I remember hearing it on Symptom and Megalomania, but don't recally ever hearing it on The Writ. Is there a specific place you heard it? Or perhaps you meant Meg instead of the Writ?
     
  13. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF
    I meant Megalomania, sorry.
     
  14. agentalbert

    agentalbert Senior Member

    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    My bad, Jeff. I meant the 1986 Castle (CLACD/NELCD variety), not 1991. So is there a 1991 Castle? I'm aware of the 1996 Castle's, which were my first exposure to Sabbath. And the CLACD/NELCD are from 1986. Are the Castle Legends ones from 1991?
     
  15. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF

    Gotcha. Yes, the Castle Legends are from 1991. The only one I have heard is Master Of Reality and I posted a sample here. If Roland still has it maybe he can upload it as I don't have the disc here (it's at my office). Anyway, on this disc, the TT is the same as the 1986 version but it sounds like it was pressed with the PE flags set incorrectly. Way too much top end boost. Roland knows how to reburn and change the flags in EAC, and I never have taken the time to figure that out. I wonder if it would cancel out with the 1986 version if the PE flags were changed?

    Ang again, the 1986 Castle of Sabotage is great EXCEPT that during Symptom and Megalomania, there is serious tape damage. The tapes literally sound mangled. Roland is so fond of the way the other tracks sound that he is of the belief that one needs both the WB and the 1986 Castle to have the best version, but I recommend the WB CD, because I think that really does the trick pretty nicely.
     
  16. listentothemusic

    listentothemusic New Member

    Location:
    Kansas City
    Hey Roland, maybe THAT's my problem, there is no PE on the CS version?
     
  17. rjstauber

    rjstauber Senior Member Thread Starter

    There is no PE on the Creative Sounds CD of "Sabotage".

    Some other Creative Sounds CD's need the PE flag (= are masterings which used PE but they were manufactured without the PE set correctly - this could be a result if they just ripped the original Castle CD's for these albums and didn't know/care about PE on those). Two I have confirmed are the first S/T album and MoR.
     
  18. rjstauber

    rjstauber Senior Member Thread Starter

    I downloaded the file and did not delete it, but it must be on my other computer. I will check one of these days, now I am very curious myself.
     
  19. listentothemusic

    listentothemusic New Member

    Location:
    Kansas City
    Is there a list somewhere here on the forum of titles/releases that contain this PE which needs to be accounted for?
     
  20. Baron Von Talbot

    Baron Von Talbot Well-Known Member

    don't think this has been answered yet. This seems to be the CD Version of the first mid 70ies Best Of BS LP. I do own this on Vinyl and honestly it sucks soundwise. i can only hope the CD mastering will make these Tracks, that are all good of course, sound more dynamic and alive.
    At least it won't be overly compressed or brickwalled like the currrent "Black Sabbath Greatest Hits 1970 - 1978" on CASTLE Communications.
     
  21. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF
    That is on Rhino.
     
  22. jon9091

    jon9091 Master Of Reality

    Location:
    Midwest
    I picked up one of these as well. I really like the EQ choices the guy made (I don't see any mastering credits). The WB now sounds a bit muddy-in-bottom to me. This disc is somewhere between the '86 Castle and the WB volume-wise. Louder than the Castle, but not as loud as the WB. There is a nasty tape damage sound at about 1:15 on Hole In The Sky... and another at 6;58 into The Writ...at least on my version (Canadian). It has the last 2 songs flip-flopped as Jeff mentioned....which is truly bizarre, and it also says "Sabbotage" on the disc itself. Weird.

    Anyway....I have a CS of SBS on the way so I'll post some clips as soon as it shows up.
     
  23. jon9091

    jon9091 Master Of Reality

    Location:
    Midwest
    Roland, do you remember if you manually set the PE flags on the '86 Castle SBS?
     
  24. oldschool

    oldschool I love tape hiss

    Location:
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    EAC automatically detected PE on my copy, CLACD 201 Made in France
     
  25. rjstauber

    rjstauber Senior Member Thread Starter

    I own the NELCD 6017 version (made in France by MPO), and EAC recognizes pre-emphasis automatically.
     
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