The W. German red faced CD catalog #814 981-2 M-1 (814 981-1 01 matrix) was one of my first dozen CD's - still have it. Great disc! But lacks the coherence (focus if you will) of the Japan for Europe Harvest or Japan RCA RPCD-102. I heard the Canadian a year or so ago and it sounded the same as the WG at least to me. Although I prefer the Japan RCA by the slimmest of margins the Harvest remains the most natural sounding CD of the album I've ever heard. But it is still an early digital recording and mastering can not hope to change that fact. At one time I owned the 1997 Japan remaster of LAFS - in my list of worst sounding CD's I've ever heard - avoid this issue. Rick P.S. Just to reiterate for the final time the Japan RCA while my favorite (barely) is not worth $125+US more than the Harvest, except to die-hard fan's like myself
Dave, I have heard this early WG version before but I like my EMI/Harvest (Japan for Europe) better. It still sounds digital to me, especially the drums. It doesn't sound like an organic 70's recording, that's for sure. It has that 80's sound, but it's not poorly recorded. It's not a mastering problem in my opinion.
Those old RCA CD's might not be to everybody's liking, especially the earlier albums. They sound natural but a little on the "darker" side, which I prefer over anything being too bright, but others might find the RCA's not detailed enough. As far as the later albums on EMI/Harvest are concerned, I think you should be safe with the WG/UK EMI/Harvest pressings. Maybe with the exception of "Blackout" which also sounds rather "dark" on the EMI/Harvest CD and some might prefer the brighter Mercury mastering (WG for US or US for US). Just because I like these pressings doesn't mean that everyone will like them. I guess by now you should have a basic idea about my mastering preferences, so please take my recommendations with caution or a "grain of salt".
I've never heard the German RCA CD so I can't comment. The FTTR I have is the early Japanese copy and, IMO, it sounds wonderful. The newer Japanese remasters are a whole different kettle of fish. Very loud and bright compared to the older versions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Harvest is not compressed during mastering, in fact none were as these mastering were all available in 1984/1985. This post contains the facts that proves my contention 1) The WG for US 814 981-2 M-1 in fact has higher overall higher levels than the Japan for Europe Harvest. Code: Scorpions - Love At First Sting - Japan for Europe Harvest.log: Peak level 90.6 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - Japan for Europe Harvest.log: Peak level 92.0 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - Japan for Europe Harvest.log: Peak level 93.6 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - Japan for Europe Harvest.log: Peak level 71.9 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - Japan for Europe Harvest.log: Peak level 73.3 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - Japan for Europe Harvest.log: Peak level 76.8 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - Japan for Europe Harvest.log: Peak level 70.8 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - Japan for Europe Harvest.log: Peak level 74.2 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - Japan for Europe Harvest.log: Peak level 77.3 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - RPCD-102 RCA.log: Peak level 100.0 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - RPCD-102 RCA.log: Peak level 95.6 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - RPCD-102 RCA.log: Peak level 100.0 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - RPCD-102 RCA.log: Peak level 92.5 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - RPCD-102 RCA.log: Peak level 91.0 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - RPCD-102 RCA.log: Peak level 86.1 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - RPCD-102 RCA.log: Peak level 84.3 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - RPCD-102 RCA.log: Peak level 88.1 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - RPCD-102 RCA.log: Peak level 92.0 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - WG for US - 814 981-2 M-1.log: Peak level 87.0 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - WG for US - 814 981-2 M-1.log: Peak level 87.0 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - WG for US - 814 981-2 M-1.log: Peak level 87.0 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - WG for US - 814 981-2 M-1.log: Peak level 87.0 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - WG for US - 814 981-2 M-1.log: Peak level 87.0 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - WG for US - 814 981-2 M-1.log: Peak level 87.0 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - WG for US - 814 981-2 M-1.log: Peak level 87.0 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - WG for US - 814 981-2 M-1.log: Peak level 87.0 % Scorpions - Love At First Sting - WG for US - 814 981-2 M-1.log: Peak level 87.0 % 2) I ran Big City Nights through a dynamic range meter, the WG for US 814 981-2 M-1 has the least dynamics with only a DR10, Harvest was seconds with DR12 and Japan RCA had the most with DR13: Japan RCA RPCD-102: ----------------------------------------------- Statistics for: Scorpions - RPCD-102 - Big City Nights.wav Number of Samples: 11022060 ----------------------------------------------- left right Peak value: -1.30 dB --- -2.63 dB Avg RMS: -15.73 dB --- -17.07 dB DR channel: 12.63 dB --- 12.56 dB ----------------------------------------------- Official DR value: DR13 =============================================== Japan Harvest for Europe: ----------------------------------------------- Statistics for: Scorpions - Harvest for Europe - Big City Nights.wav Number of Samples: 10995600 ----------------------------------------------- left right Peak value: -2.29 dB --- -2.57 dB Avg RMS: -16.76 dB --- -17.08 dB DR channel: 12.63 dB --- 12.20 dB ----------------------------------------------- Official DR value: DR12 =============================================== WG for US 814 981-2 M-1: ----------------------------------------------- Statistics for: Scorpions - WG for US - Big City Nights.wav Number of Samples: 11010300 ----------------------------------------------- left right Peak value: -1.20 dB --- -1.20 dB Avg RMS: -12.81 dB --- -12.70 dB DR channel: 10.03 dB --- 9.72 dB ----------------------------------------------- Official DR value: DR10 =============================================== 3) Now for some waveforms (if you don't like them don't look at 'em ) which show the WG for US 814 981-2 M-1 looks limited or it is clipped compared to the full range of the Harvest and Japan RCA RPCD Conclusion: The WG for US 814 981-2 M-1 has the least Dynamics. Which is what I heard in my compares. The "orange" Canadian is the same mastering which regardless of views on pressing variances the Peak Levels, Dynamic range values and waveforms are empirically the same. If any of these were compressed or limited during mastering it would be the WG for US 814 981-2 M-1 as it's dynamics are "squashed" when compared to the other masterings. That said, once again, all 3 of these mastering were 1985 or prior so none were digitally manipulated during mastering. Hope this clears this up once and for all.
Rick, thanks for posting all that information, very interesting. The Harvest is fine for me. If I run across a 1st Japanese pressing one of these days for a reasonable price, I might pick it up just to hear for myself what the difference is.
Be careful about those early-Japan pressings and the "air" boost. That could lead to "better" dynamics and more "detail."
I hear you, Roland. I don't know how my US RCA Virgin Killer compares to the other ones, but I like it. It sounds way better than the second Jpn pressing, but the US RCA of In Trance is way too bright. The Jpn sounds better. For Blackout and LAFS I have the UK/EMIs on the way.
I understand your perceptions. I haven't heard the RPCD-102 pressing yet Rick and at the insane asking prices I've seen I seriously doubt I ever will. It's ok as I really enjoy the one I have as it sounds very life-like to me even though it has the same peak readings as the W. German 4 USA. Maybe I'll grab one of those EMI/Harvest CD's one to check out your preference one day Roland.
On LAFS was not detail for me but aggressiveness and the obligatory wider sound stage. As I have stated too many times (sorry) I liked it a tad better but not worth the pile of extras bills it costs over the Harvest. Japan for Europe Harvest is usually under $40USD - worth every penny IMHO. Excellent disc, difference is pretty large over the WG for US/US for US/Canada for Canada "stock discs". That said I still crank that mastering when driving just like I did all those years ago. I never would have spent the money on the Japan RCA if it was not one of my favorite albums from my jr high/HS era.
Of course my opinion is subject to being changed by any sudden bulk financial windfall. I would love to hear that RPCD as it is my favorite Scorpions album. That would be the shoot-out of the century. "In this corner... the Red faced, smooth as silk and rock solid breath of life presence current undefeated champion. The W. German Mercury/Polygram 814 981-2 M-1 first pressing!!!!" In the opposing corner... the now famous 3800 yen, no UPC on the back artwork. RPCD-102 RCA Japanese 1st pressing!!!!"
I just got my EMI Blackout and it rocks. The original US is brighter, and the EMI has better bass. It sounds great to me.
Glad you like it. I also like it better than the Mercury CD, but it is a little on the dark side but is otherwise much more solid sounding in my opinion.
I just got the EMI LAFS, and it appears to be brighter than my red face original US. Not by much, but still some. The drums are brighter. Very weird. I wonder why that is?
Yes for Fly, no to Taken: USA Cat #'s as follows for all RCA USA pressings: Scorpions Fly To The Rainbow 1974 RCA Records 5057-2-R USA Scorpions In Trance 1976 RCA Records 4128-2-R USA Scorpions Virgin Killer 1976 RCA Records 3659-2-R USA Scorpions Tokyo Tapes 1978 RCA Records 53039-2 USA (2) CD Set
Virgin Killer sounds about perfect, but In Trance is way too bright. I have the second Jpn pressing on the way.
I own all of the USA RCA pressings and own a few of the original European issues. The Euro version of Tokyo Tapes is WAY better, the rest sound pretty close... at least not a glaring difference. The area whereby the USA issues (or West Germany for USA issues) sound terrible is the atomic Mercury's. I guess I shouldn't say terrible as that's a bit too critical, but WAY more "digital" than the Euro EMI's... which are the ones I always reach for if I don't feel like pulling out the vinyl (USA, West Germany or Japan)... which still is the best way to go in my opinion (very much like the EMI Iron Maiden vinyl... AWESOME). The atomic USA and West Germany for USA pressings of Blackout are so harsh and shrill I actually prefer the cassette tape... and no, I'm not kidding. I have an old EMI cassette from the U.K. or France that sounds REALLY good, actually.
Can we get catalog numbers on the WG EMI/Harvest discs? It makes them a bit easier to eBay if I can setup an automatic search. Please and thank you!
From my collection: Scorpions Lovedrive 1979 Breeze Music / EMI Electrola CDP 7 46733 2 Disc Manufactured in West Germany Scorpions Animal Magnetism 1980 Breeze Music / EMI Electrola CDP 7 46734 2 Disc Manufactured in U.K. Scorpions Blackout 1982 Breeze Music / EMI Electrola CDP 7 46732 2 Disc Manufactured in West Germany Scorpions Love At First Sting 1984 Breeze Music / EMI Records / Harvest CDP 7 46025 2 Disc Manufactured in Japan for Europe
Rick, after close inspection if you look closely at the USA graph, it is the same as my W. Germany, it is either equal at the least or much more dynamic than the RCA. Those peaks never go to above 95%. When you view closer by zooming the peaks on the Harvest and RCA appear reduced with less and not more dynamics than the USA/W. Germany.
Dave, not looking to argue but on the full size image, which maybe I can use an image hoster for, you can clearly see the peaks appear limited. Plus the DR rating is more exact than the waveforms. The Japan RCA is rare like hens tooth and won't be found cheap, so get the Harvest and you'll hear the differences which are not small, you will not be disappointed.
