Rolling Stones in Mono - 2016 - Content Discussion Only (Mixes, Tracks, etc.)*

FYI, I should say "the Hot Rocks 1 CD and its derivatives". For instance, I'm pretty sure I have a London cassette that is mastered from the London CD masters. There may or may not be LPs as well.

 

Thanks Luke. This is great

 

Just to clarify, wasn't Satisfaction in true stereo on the UK version of Hot Rocks? I do love the mono version though. Still cuts right through the clutter and grabs you.

 

It was on the European London Hot Rocks 1, from 1985 to 1995.

Hot Rocks (both discs) was released in Europe in 1990 by ABKCO, and Satisfaction is mono there.

 

But I meant on vinyl, is there a stereo Satisfaction on vinyl?

 

As I said, it's possible that some LPs from the '80s use the London CD digital master, but I'm not aware of any specifically. And I'm not aware of any other stereo release.

 

Guess I better dig out my Hot Rocks LP from around 1981. London Blue Label, 10/81 in deadwax. I just assumed Satisfaction was fake stereo on there. But I haven't played it for a while.

Edit: Just Played it - "Satisfaction" Sure sounds like a mono track on the LP.

 

Thanks. I can swear I've heard it in stereo but maybe not.

 

Yes, mono on all US LPs.

 

Mono makes everything better. According to AMG, anyway.

"What is arguably the worst album the Rolling Stones did during the 1960s has suddenly been transformed into one of the best bootleg releases ever, its reputation salvaged and its songs transformed into superb, punky psychedelia, and it's all because of the use of the mono mix (virtually unheard by anyone outside of England) and a new transfer that runs circles around the late-'80s ABKCO stereo CD edition. Their Satanic Majesties Request has always been disliked by fans, who perceived it as the Rolling Stones trying to emulate the Beatles during the latter's psychedelic phase, and generally not sounding terribly good. The mono mix fixes all of that and then some -- indeed, all of a sudden, the album sounds great, and is great. The rhythm instruments are upfront and solid, and from the opening bars of "Sing This All Together" through the punchy break on "In Another Land" to the extended jam on "Sing This All Together (See What Happened)" (as it's printed here), this sounds like the Stones, pounding away hard and heavy, and scarcely like the Beatles at all. As expected, "2000 Man" is the highlight, with a crunchy guitar break that's right up close and personal, along with Jagger's vocals over it and Charlie Watts kicking the hell out of his kit while the organ twists little Arabesques around all of them; not far behind in terms of allure, amazingly enough, is "Sing This All Together (See What Happened)" -- the horns sound much more integrated into the texture of the track and a lot more dissonant, the Mellotron is more upfront in the mix, holding the piece together much better at the end, and the tom-toms and kettle drums are practically in your lap, while Keith Richards' guitar, doing strange psychedelic slides in the opening or playing a crunchy rhythm accompaniment to the horns, comes off as a true rock virtuoso performance. The rest of the album pretty much is elevated to a similar degree -- oddly enough, only "She's a Rainbow" isn't transformed radically -- and it's all more worth hearing than it's been in decades. The original LP has been augmented here by the presence of "Child of the Moon" in its original, thundering mono mix; "We Love You" and "Dandelion" in similar perfect monaural; and rough mixes of "In Another Land," "She's a Rainbow," "2000 Light Years From Home," and "The Lantern"; plus a rehearsal for the instrumental portion of the refrain on "2000 Man" (with lots of crunchy guitar), and two session outtakes featuring piano and acoustic guitar and organ and acoustic guitar, respectively."

Their Satanic Majesties Request [Mono Edition Bootleg] - The Rolling Stones | Songs, Reviews, Credits | AllMusic »

 

Luke, amazing work as always.

I see what FT is saying above though, I listened to both Beggar's and Let It Bleed on way to Chicago for the Beatles film Saturday, both in mono from digital copies that are probably well circulated b**ts with some period bonus tracks and these do sound amazing, different, this thread had me pulling them out of storage. I totally agree on what you replied on inferior tapes, but I guess this makes this mono set not "original mono plus fold down mono mix releases" which as your analysis shows, is far from the case all over the collection coming out. In a sense it seems to be more like the Capitol albums Beatles release a couple years ago where the originals that were sometimes inferior and others Dexterized as they say were replaced with modern updates from 2009, but supposedly manipulated to sound like the originals. What many wanted was digital transfers of what they bought back in the day, warts and all, from many posts after that release I read. This Stones box seems to mimic that, yes?

 

The EQ differences between the 1989 and 2002 singles collection can be pretty radical at times. Oldham (not generally a mastering engineer) mastered the 1989 collection and, at times, used some boomy EQ on the low end and some shrillness on the top. Ludwig also likely took some liberties with EQ on the 2002 singles collection. Your UK LP may be closer to a flat transfer, which would explain a different sound. Folding down the stereo mix would probably make for a different sounding mix than the true mono, as there is some pretty hard panning on the stereo.

 

Yes, it looks very nice and tempting.
Too bad the normal EU-edition won't be released like that and Im not sure if it is really wise to order from Japan since it would take price even further with added taxes etc. payments.
Im used to paying the taxes if ordering from USA etc places outside EU, but would like to get this kind of presentation to the EU-edition aswell.

 

Luke, a bit off topic, but...

With the 1971 Gimme Shelter compilation, side 1:

1. Jumpin' Jack Flash"

2."Love in Vain" (Robert Johnson)

3."Honky Tonk Women"

4."Street Fighting Man"

5."Sympathy for the Devil"

6."Gimme Shelter"

Are you aware of any of these being special mixes? Or anything special about them? I haven't played it in a long time, but I remember the sound quality as being very good.

 

Not to throw this too far off topic, but for the 2014 Beatles 'US Albums' box (FYI - the 'Capitol' boxes were released 2004-6, using the Capitol masters), the basic M.O. seemed to be this:

Retain any unique (different to those issued in the UK) mixes that were part of the original US albums. These mixes were sourced from US tapes.
Where the UK & US mixes were the same mix, source them from cleaner UK copies (already remastered in 2009).
Any mixes that were the same as the UK, but were simply manipulated by Capitol (i.e. added reverb), use the original untampered-with UK mix.
Any tracks that Capitol created fake-stereo versions for, replace with true stereo versions.
Any tracks that Capitol created fold down mono versions for, replace with true mono.

Nothing was 'manipulated' to sound like the original US versions - either the US versions were used or they were not. The main aim seems to have been to include the correct mixes, but sourced from the best tapes available and without Capitol's manipulations. They did make some mistakes/changes to this approach though (and one massive blunder), which I won't go into detail about here.

But in answer to your question - 'Is the Stones box mimicking the Beatles US box?' - the replacement of the folds used on the original US Aftermath LP with the true mono mixes is a similar move, yes. There might be other similarities which I'll address later...

While we're on the subject, the 'Beatles In Mono' box did include a handful of tracks released in true mono mixes for the first time ever. These were for the 'Yellow Submarine' soundtrack album. When the mono version of that LP was released in 1969, it was simply a fold of the stereo LP (even though true mono mixes had been made). The box set replaced the folds with the unreleased mono mixes. This does seem very similar to what's happened with 'Back Street Girl' and 'Please Go Home' on the Stones mono box (which is a good thing, IMO).

 

I t would be nice if a better copy of the stereo 45 YCAGWYW might turn up, but maybe the actual mix is the problem? And maybe that's why GRRR! uses a different version (which I think is just an edit of the LIB stereo mix)?

 

That's a great side, I have that album.

But what has it got to do with the Stones in Mono box set?

This thread seems to have gone so far of topic.

Any relevant info about the actual topic is lost in a sea of questions to Lupak. Don't you think your question is maybe better in another thread??

 

Do the UK sleeves on your set have replica fold back sleeves? (....he asks fearing the worst ☹️)

 

Agree this does look tempting, but it would cost three times the price to the EU (with import duty). If the packaging had been somewhere towards this for the UK edition, even with the limited number of unique mixes, I would probably have still been in. I guess what I was hoping for, was another Beatles in mono style box, but to be fair the Stones costs a lot less (I think I paid £175 back in 09 for TBIM) and seems to be somewhere between a Columbia type box set and the aforementioned. Will wait to see a propper unboxing on Youtube and for the final round up of unique mixes before I reconsider.

 

@lukpac

As you know, for the Beatles 'Second Album' on the US Albums box, the stereo tracks were not taken from Capitol's re-dubs with extra EQ and reverb, but were instead sourced from the original 'dry' mixes.

I've been comparing '19th Nervous Breakdown' from the new box with a couple of earlier releases. You may well be correct that the new version is a remix (or at best an alternate vintage mix). But there may be another (remote?) possibility.

I chose the GRRR! version to compare it to. It's definitely not the same though. The main difference to me seemed to be the vocals - they are more forward on the new version and have less reverb. The mix we are used to has the the vocals more recessed and wetter.

So I added some EQ (taking the mids down, especially the vocals), and added some reverb. I didn't match the GRRR! version exactly (it was just a quick experiment), but it's a lot closer.

So, do you think there is any chance that the original mono mix of '19th NB' was redubbed with EQ and reverb for the original release? This may also have been where the tape drag at the end (and a quicker fade-out) was introduced, and why this new version (assuming it is the drier original master mix) sounds different to what we've become used to.

It's a long shot perhaps, but I just thought I'd throw it out there... If it is a new remix, I just don't see a reason for it. But the 'dry' original would make more sense.

 

I agree with you this, the price for ordering the Japan-set is too high really.
I think all we can do is wait a bit closer to the release, and hope that someone gets the set in little advance so can do unboxing.
And yep, I definitely get what you're saying about The Beatles sets I got both of them (Stereo & Mono) and in both formats aswell (vinyl+cd), those are nice (especially the Mono cd-boxset).
But could have easily waited for little time as those never were that limited releases as some claimed to be.
So, best is to wait and see how these go.

 

All of Aftermath UK/US, Between The Buttons and Satanic Majesties (except for the tracks from these albums that are already on the 2002 Singles Collection), plus a couple from Flowers and the mono 'Sympathy'.

I don't think there are any more than around 35 mono mixes that have not been released on CD before (not counting fold downs, which you can do yourself).

 

In the 35, are you counting Aftermath UK and US separately ? I ask as the tracks on these do differ in length - Lukpacs analysis?

 

No. I would choose the full-length version as the definitive version in those cases. I don't think they differ otherwise.

 

Maybe they read "do not buy this CD if you want a STEREO disc"