Ronnie James Dio in Black Sabbath

To me, I love both what the band did in the 1970s and with Dio.

But I think people really get crazy upset about lineup changes - like "I liked the band when I discovered them, I was back in high school " , then they changed a member or they progressed as a band and didn't sound exactly the same... It's nostalgia, is what I think. "Aww man I remember 1972, I was playing my Master of Reality 8-track in my Corvette and was dating Heather - man life was sweet. Heaven & Hell sounds different, and it reminds me that it's not 1972 - I'm driving a mini van, I hate my job, I hate my ex-wife, I'm bald now - this is Dio's fault for ruining this band!!!!!!"

That's just my guess.

 

Part of what I meant to say in my ramble above was that I focus on the music and nostalgia just doesn't play a part for me - although I get that it does for some. That is why I don't agree when someone says something isn't that band, just because it sounds a little different than they did 5 or 10 or more years ago.

Maybe I don't care about nostalgia in regards to music because I graduated high school in 1986 and college in 1990 and that was just a bad period for music, objectively (expects Terrapin Station to correct me ) . (Yes, i get there was Master of Puppets, The Ultimate Sin, etc, but not that much good compared to other years.) So I just enjoy music for the music.

 

This is true.
I was just tipping my hat a bit to Jason (Godshifter).

That Sabbath album thread he started, and moderated, was just tremendous.
A lot of participation, what people liked and didn't like about various albums and songs, it never got snarky or argumentative.
RRBear did a lot of analysis and broke down musically what Iommi was playing on a ton of songs. Just fascinating stuff if u love guitar.
Tim, Blues, Trill, Shifter and many others with interesting facts, photos, memories, and of course opinions on the various releases and re-releases
from the Sabbath catalog. It's well worth seeking out.

I knew a lot about Sabbath, BUT learned a lot more in that thread, especially the time after Dio left up until the originals got back together.
That thread filled it all in.

Jason, ya done good there....

 

I've always been a bigger fan of the Ozzy era but the Dio era is great too, especially as I'm a big fan of Dio's solo project as well as the albums he made in Rainbow. For me the Ozzy-era albums are essential but Heaven And Hell in particular almost reaches that. Mob Rules is great too and I find it to be rather underrated.

 

For me it's not nostalgia when it comes to this band, I just happen to find their first 4 albums to be their best. Ozzy's voice was also perfect for those albums as was the music itself. I wasn't even alive back in the early 70's.

 

Definitely going to check out thank you

 

They do feel like almost two separate bands it’s true. I love them both though. I think my favourite Sab mk2 track is a slight outsider - ‘Turn Up The Night’. Heavy, melodic and romps along at a great lick! Of the RJD Sabbath albums, Mob Rules sounds the best to me. I really love the density of the sound. Other great unsung tracks from that album are Over and Over & Falling Off The Edge of The World.

 

I like how you name two "exceptions" that don't even come close to being the best of that period.

 

MoP, while not my favorite Metallica album, is still an awesome album. Ultimate Sin, not so much

 

I mentioned two that Black Sabbath fans might recognize, that's the main reason.

 

I mean, just of the top of my head, I can think of these:

Watchtower - Control and Resistance
Helstar - Nosferatu
Destruction - Release From Agony
Candlemass - Epicus Doomicus Metallicus
Helstar - A Distant Thunder
Voivod - Dimension Hatröss
Jason Becker - Perpetual Burn
Crimson Glory - Transcendence
Marty Friedman - Dragon's Kiss
Yngwie Malmsteen - Trilogy
Riot - Thundersteel
Pestilence - Malleus Maleficarum
Saint Vitus - Born Too Late
X Japan - Vanishing Vision
Coroner - No More Color
King's X - Gretchen Goes to Nebraska

And on and on and on. Seriously, the period between 1986 and 1989 was one of metal (and rock, at large)'s best eras.

 

I was 15 in 1980 and basically discovered Sabbath with Heaven and Hell, so I had no pre-conceived notions that Sabbath was Ozzy only. But I put H&H and Mob right up there with the best of the Sabbath albums. 1st one will always be my favorite, then probably Paranoid. I actually also like Never Say Die better than Sabbath Bloody Sabbath or Sabotage. (outrageous!)

 

The DIO lineups:

Heaven and Hell is an inspired mix of Sabbath and RJD, an almost divine effort. As much soul as any of the best with Ozzy (the first 6) and with a new angle and punch.

Mob Rules is a lot closer to DIO than Sabbath - and not as good as Holy Diver.

 

I agree strongly with the FIRST part of your post. I often rank Mob Rules higher than Heaven and Hell as a complete album.

 

Those fans are awesome, true rock n'r roll spirit!

 

Just my 5 cents:

Heaven & Hell - A good 1/2 album, could be considered a "classic" Sabbath album

Mob Rules - Turn Up the Night is great, the rest not so great

Live Evil is according to some a "simulation" of what Dio era Sabbath might have sounded like live, fair enough as such.

Conclusion: better to have the Dio/Sabbath albums than not.

Born Again is my favourite "Non-Ozzy" Sabbath album.

 

I'd argue that Voodoo (off Mob Rules) is the greatest Sabbath song, ever.

 

Not even in the top 100 as far as I’m concerned.

 

I like the song "Mob Rules" the most off that album and rank it in my top 5 Dio songs.

 

Voodoo is fantastic and the cut off of Live eviL is even better

 

That's how I feel about most of the Ozzy era.

 

Heaven and Hell & Mob Rules are cut from the same cloth. Same producer, same (for the most part) style of songs. They mirror each other pretty closely.

 

IMO Mob Rules is better

 

It’s a bit rawer and has more grit to it. The amplification and guitar set up was different than H&H which explains that. I like both albums but certainly some like one over the other.