Ronnie James Dio in Black Sabbath

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Siegmund, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. Paulette

    Paulette Your love for me has just got to be real.

    Location:
    US
    I just love him so much. He says that about prison too. And Sharon.
    But it really just sticks yucky for me, Dio taking over.

    I was reading a bit about Jim Morrison today. After "L.A. Woman" was done, he went to France to rest and take some time off. I always wonder if Sabbath did the same if that may have helped. Of course Jim died in France :cry:
     
  2. Siegmund

    Siegmund Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Britain, Europe

    But he did. Different voice, different lyrical themes. Iommi and Butler changed their approach to go with it, too. Plus, for MR, there was a new drummer.

    The name remained the same but it was, effectively, a different band.
     
  3. vamborules

    vamborules Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT
    If Ozzy had stayed in Sabbath we wouldn't have Blizzard of Ozz and Diary of a Madman. That would be awful. This way we got those two, plus Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. That's a pretty good result as far as band breakups go.
     
  4. Rick Robson

    Rick Robson What comes next?

    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro
    I read somewhere Iommi stating that working with Dio opened to him new and defying directions and exciting possibilities that would never have happened with Ozzy kept on the the band,
     
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  5. Paulette

    Paulette Your love for me has just got to be real.

    Location:
    US
    It could be seen as Ozzy leaving changed everything. Kinda sucks.
     
  6. Paulette

    Paulette Your love for me has just got to be real.

    Location:
    US
    I see I'm in a camp (or put outside the camp :winkgrin:)by myself. Guess this wasn't supposed to be this kind of discussion (although maybe unavoidable) sorry if I thread shred.
    Things are as they should be of course but I see how there could have been so many other options.
     
  7. zen

    zen Forum Resident

    Kinda didn't. :)

    When the news happened everyone I knew seemed to be excited/intrigued. Sabbath were somewhat off the radar in 1980 and Dio joining Sabbath was welcome news.
     
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  8. Paulette

    Paulette Your love for me has just got to be real.

    Location:
    US
    Interestingly enough I really like how he would over emote. He really should have been an opera singer.
    So far I've liked how he does Ozzy era. He just never shoulda been there in the first damn place :p
     
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  9. Paulette

    Paulette Your love for me has just got to be real.

    Location:
    US
    I guess I just don't see it so clearly. I'm sure Ozz was probably no peach but it's just all put on him.
    I don't wanna say anything bad about Dio but I didn't like how he called Ozzy an animal when Dio was being interviewed.
    It's ok that Ozz "hanged" midgets during shows because he was the one who was replaced. Dio should never have said anything bad about John.
     
  10. GodShifter

    GodShifter Negative Creep®

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    There was deep resentment and competitiveness between both camps. Ozzy, reportedly, listened to H&H while the writing was going on for Blizzard and was intimidated because he felt he couldn’t match the quality of that record.

    Yeah, Dio talked some crap about Ozzy and vice versa. That said, as pointed out, the competitive nature between both Ozzy and Sabbath brought out the best in both bands. Sabbath was at the end of their rope by Never Say Die; the “break up” revitalized both camps. I don’t think it can be seen as anything other than a positive. Look at the great music that we got from both bands.
     
  11. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH

    I was there. Ozzy was so over the top in his comments about Tony and Ronnie in the press that from what I remember eventually Ronnie had enough and started firing back. You have to understand that Ozzy could not accept that he was replaced. His rants in the press in those days about Tony controlling things and having to Produce everything showed little to no appreciation for how that band kept going in the 70's. Ozzy was angry. He said stuff. Criticized Tony playing jazz at concerts. Criticized Tony's perfectionist tuning causing delays at concerts. Criticized what he saw as the band getting more and more complex and losing sight of its original sound. Criticized Never Say Die! as the worst album he was ever involved with. Criticized!

    That isn't to say that I don't think Ronnie said equally over the top stuff in his own way, but my recollection is that Sabbath tried for a while to not even get into the back and forth. Eventually Ronnie basically said: "The other guys won't say anything because they are gentlemen, but I will....."

    Of course, none of this really matters now. Sabbath finished strong with Ozzy but also had a chance to work with Ronnie again and were doing incredible shows right up to when he passed away.

    It's all good. People say thing when they are angry. It's now water under the bridge.
     
  12. Paulette

    Paulette Your love for me has just got to be real.

    Location:
    US
    Point taken
     
  13. Paulette

    Paulette Your love for me has just got to be real.

    Location:
    US
    Hi, BTW :)
     
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  14. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Dio didn't steal anyone's job. He was forming his own band when Tony called him. They got together, wrote Children Of The Sea and the rest is historee.

    As a big fan of all of them (Iommi, Ozzy, Dio), I'm glad things went the way they did. Ozzy pulled himself together and produced those two fantastic albums with Randy, and the Iommi/Dio combination gave us Heaven And Hell and Mob Rules. Monumental albums all.

    It's like Dave Mustaine being kicked out of Metallica. With the split fans got two bands putting out great albums instead of one.
     
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  15. Rick Robson

    Rick Robson What comes next?

    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro
    Although incomplete, as I couldn't get the part 2, here is an interesting excerpt of a recent Tony Iommi's chat at the Musicians Institute (https://www.mi.edu), about Ronnie James Dio:

    Iommi spoke about the iconic singer’s Black Sabbath audition. “When he started singing, bloody hell, I couldn’t believe what was coming out of his little body,” Iommi says. “His voice was so good. Up until that point, with Ozz, we hadn’t done much because we were all stoned and out of it and he was worse than us and he had lost interest in it. We needed something to happen otherwise we would have just broken up. We had to have somebody new come in, and it was Ronnie.”

    Black Sabbath's Tony Iommi: I Would Like to Start Writing Again
     
  16. rock4ev

    rock4ev Forum Resident

    Location:
    CA USA
    I have posted my thoughts on this thread about Dio and Sabbath and they were in high regards, this is kinda an add on to comment about the 'The Devil You Know' by Heaven and Hell album. I've been spinning that a few times in last few days and I think it's a very strong album with great riffs, vocals and playing by the whole band, it's not a fast album it's more slow and heavy, much different compared to the other 3 albums they made together, (which was also many a years ago so a lot is different for all on this one, and the time in space they were in when making it, it is unique in it's own) and is why I think it gets overlooked by many who are fans of those because your kinda expecting something like the other 3 albums and it's very different. I somehow had misplaced it or lost track of it in my collection (so many vinyl and cd's) so it had been awhile since I listened to it, I totally think this album will pick up a much larger following then it has in years to come. It is a fine outing, no doubts about that.
     
  17. rock4ev

    rock4ev Forum Resident

    Location:
    CA USA
    Does anyone who knows the band Elf well get the feeling the song Walk Away off H&H album could have been one of Ronnie's songs from those day's? It dawned on me because I been playing the first Elf album a lot lately as well as their other 2 albums and the lyrics sound like something in the style Ronnie wrote in back then before Rainbow or Sabbath or his solo stuff. If you know his work in Elf pretty good you'll understand where I'm getting at about this. It's kind of a trip and it now stands out clearly, different lyrics for Dio at that juncture in his career tho ones like he totally used to write early on. :righton:
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  18. Search function didn't yield any results ....

    ... is there a Ronnie James Dio song by song thread somewhere perhaps?
     
  19. Purple

    Purple Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Just to add to this - I doubt Sabbath would have "made it" in the 1980s without the changes they made. With the NWOBHM, and new wave of punk more generally, what Sabbath was doing- and capable of doing- was mostly out of fashion. Each faction partnered with a new voice that enabled them to turn into something different, evolve with the times. Had everyone stayed together they just would have died out later, ended up more forgotten, with none of the impact they achieved, by changing with the times. It was hard to appreciate at the time or even later in the 1980s when things began to misfire, but it was an entrepreneurial coup de grace to fire Ozzy when they did.
     
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  20. blacksabbathrainbow

    blacksabbathrainbow Sabbnatic

    Location:
    Berlin
    I believe that's true. What matters more to me, though, it that they really improved musically (IMO, of course) at that point - not upon MOR or Sabotage (that would be impossible I guess), but certainly over TE and NSD. I really, really love the music Sabbath created during their first 6 albums; and even though I love most of the later Sabbath albums too, I do think that the music they created on those first 6 albums was far more significant and magic overall. However, IMO Heaven and Hell just beats the **** out of both NSD and TE. I don't have any serious doubts that, had Sabbath and Ozzy somehow managed to make another album after NSD, it would have been MUCH worse than H&H feat. RJD. I agree with those who claim that RJD was the refreshment that Sabbath urgently needed. H&H is one of my favourite Sabbath albums, 6 of the 8 songs on it are just perfect. I don't care much for Ozzy solo, but H&H alone would be reason enough for me to be happy about RJD joining Sabbath.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
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  21. Cassiel

    Cassiel Sonic Reducer

    Location:
    NYC, USA
    The Dio era was the flowering of Iommi as a METAL (vs. "hard rock," as great and groundbreaking as he was) guitarist.
     
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  22. walrus

    walrus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    I'm sure I've said this before, but given Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die, it's fairly obvious the original lineup of Sabbath had run it's course creatively by 1978. I'm not sure how Sabbath would've fared had they made a truly great record with Ozzy in the climate of the early 80's (the success of the Dio era was still due in large part to Sabbath still having an audience hungry for traditional Black Sabbath music), but I don't see any sign that they would've been capable of producing one.
     
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  23. Rick Robson

    Rick Robson What comes next?

    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro
    Well, I'd prefer to say it slightly differently:
    The Iommi&Dio era Sabbath was the flowering of Dio as a METAL (vs. "hard rock," as great and groundbreaking as he was) vocalist and singer, let alone as composer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
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  24. Rick Robson

    Rick Robson What comes next?

    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro
    But I understand that Iommi's guitar lines and approaches had already changed a bit by the time of his partnership with Dio.

    Interestingly though, the album H&H brings back to me some of their former powerful dark and doom BS trademark atmosphere and spirit. It's one hell of an album for me and one of my Sabbath favourites.
     
  25. blacksabbathrainbow

    blacksabbathrainbow Sabbnatic

    Location:
    Berlin
    That's my biggest problem with RJD. Amazing singer and a very good composer, but the lyrics are often, well... "Lady Evil" is a good example, "Starstruck" would be another one. I am glad I don't care very much for Lady Evil musically either (it's the worst song on H&H IMO - which doesn't mean it's a really bad song though), while I love Starstruck despite the lyrics.
     

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