Room set up

Gary,

All intelligent, scientific and accoustic theories aside, I would arrange your room in the way that "you" feel your system sounds the best--simplist, most common sense approach!

Are you going to get that Radon problem taken care of?

Bob

 

I agree with Bob. Also, you want the room to be comfortable. That adds to the listening experience...

Todd

 

Hi Gary,

I think the previous comments make good sense. The one thing that I would highly recommend (if possible) is to not have the equipment rack (or any large objects such as TV's) between the speakers.

Cheers

 

This is exactly how I have my system set up. The rack is between the speakers, but some two to three feet behind them. (My room is a dedicated listening room, and I set up my speakers using the "Cardas method," putting them more or less in the center of the room. Obviously, this may not be practical for all.)

I find this to work well for me; I get a very strong center image and superb soundstaging, which I (and another audiophile who recently visited) actually consider to be one of the strengths of my system.

 

Gary,

I am using the exact same set-up as Jeff with stellar results. I checked the Audio Psychic set-up but found it unacceptable for my own situation.

 

Gary,

How far out from the wall will your speakers be? If you are going to put them almost in the centre of the room your equipment rack may work out fine between the speakers but against the wall. Seems to work for Jeff and Dave.

In my situation (a 12X13 listening room) my speakers are 2 feet from the rear wall.

I used to have my TV in between but slightly behind my Tangent speakers.

When I moved the TV into another room I noticed an improvement in imaging and soundstaging.

 

Tangent, how do you deal with bass issues in that nearly square room of yours?

I find the equipment between the speakers messes with my concentration on the music (along with destroying image and depth). My room is ~26X19 with a sloped ceiling. The speakers are on the long wall using the commonly known rule of thirds: roughly 8.5 feet between the speakers and the side walls, 6 feet from the back wall.

 

Yes, Gary, if the equipment is at eye level I find that it interferes with my concentration. I fully understand that others may not have this problem. I have a friend who has a tall equipment rack placed midway between his Von Schweikert VR-4's. Whenever I visit him I have to listen with my eyes closed so that I can imagine there's nothing there.

I have considered a long, low platform for the components between the speakers, as this would enable me to use shorter speaker cables (for better sound and less cost), and this arrangement would probably not impede on either my concentration, or the noted deterioration of imaging. My better half put the nix on this idea though.

I read somewhere that there are sound panels designed to be placed between the speakers so that they can eliminate any potential interaction between them. As I recollect, these things actually absorb the sound as it reaches that point mid way between the speakers. Frankly, I don't see how these things could possibly work, as instruments or voices placed directly in the center of a stereo image might end up sounding like doubles.

I suppose, also, there may be speakers that were designed to have television sets or other large objects between them. And, there are others that were designed to be installed into walls or ceilings, so I guess that it could indeed depend on *what* speakers you have.

 

Some possible helpful solutions if there is a TV positioned between the speakers (especially in an audio/HT setup). Try to have the speakers not directly in line with the TV (the glass screen, cabinet, etc. are buggers). Pull the speakers out as much as you can within the logistics of your choice of setup (to keep the best speaker placement yet also not the need to get rid of the coffee table because they are too pulled into the room/you know what I mean). When listening to music place a clean blanket (choice of any colors), rug, sheet, etc. over the TV (especially covering the glass screen) and that might help clean things up a bit. When you're ready to watch a film or TV, then just lift off the covering (don't say "Ta-da!") and you're in business. This should help kill some of the early reflections and other nasties of having a big, heavy, glass thingie sitting between your "audio" speakers. Try it...

Also, sometimes when I don't feel like looking at the data read-out on my CD player (I hate always being aware of "time") I just put a post-it note or whatever else I can improvise with over the display. The data sometimes interferes with the mood when I have the lights out, candles, wine and glowing tubes (no wife now sadly, but one day maybe a girlfriend/yikes/well on second thought, sneering like the Black Adder). Luckily, the DVD player has a display dim switch (good idea).

Todd

 

Gary,

I had the speakers in front of the TV by about six inches and like Todd used the old blanket trick. But that 200 hundred pound TV was still there hindering soundstage, depth and imaging.

Now that the TV is gone I have my equipment rack against the right wall slightly behind the right speaker with nothing in between the two speakers. Much better!

Regarding SGB's question about bass, there's not much I can do to improve bass extension and balance in such a small room. I find that bass extension improves if I open the door to the room!

Gary, consider your new room a blank canvas, do your basic set up, get a handle on how it sounds and then experiment with listening position and speaker positioning until you get the best compromise (rooms are always a compromise). I try to have a seamless balance between the frequency ranges.

 

room set-up

A very interesting exchange.

After living in several different places/situations with basically the same equipment,
my only serious concern on re-set up has been dealing with bass. I've found that I can
tune walls and corners and the only problematic area is bass. I've tried the blanket over the t.v.
(while living with the ex.) and it does help though having no equipment between the loudspeakers
is by far the best set up (now that's a dedicated listening room.)

It's a lot of trouble but if you have connections to any local large printing businesses you may be able to obtain extra-heavy duty cardboard cylinders that are far better than the cement molds to be had from the local home improvement center (they're used to ship offset printing blankets.)
And free, though they have to be for the large presses.

What I would like to know- is there a place on the web for non-computer types to get info on how to calculate roomspecific speaker placement and standing waves.

BTW- Volkmar at PARticular design makes a 'low-boy' equipment rack that is less than 3' tall
(specifically for HT but ideal for those afflicted with a television set . We ordered a large glass slab and put it on top of the rack itself) His racks are visually pleasing
and sound good. Maybe not the very best sounding though Very visually appealing.

Djose

 

room setup

Yes Gary!!

The Cardas info was what I was looking for. Thank You.

I'm apologize for not being clear. The cardboard cylinders are intended for bass traps.

A lot of people go for the concrete molds (also cardboard) at home depot.
If you are lucky enough, the items I refered to are superior. Larger and longer......

and free, usually. I have my own way of customizing for the specific purpose. They come in many diameters and lengths. No matter what the shape of your listening room, I regard them as indespensable in any room with corners.

Djose

 

bass traps

Also-

When and if I find a DIRECT source for these traps (it's harder to find the truly large ones)
I will post it here to be sure.

thanks

 

Hello again, all.

I have exactly the opposite problem that most who've contributed to this topic do: Although my room is just a bit shy of reaching one audio guru's expressed *ideal* room, it's a little bass shy. (The author claimed 27.5 X 18 with a 10' ceiling was as good as one could hope for - mine is about 26 X 19 with a sloping ceiling from 8 to 13' [if I can find the site again I will post a link to it later].) Whereas most in the smaller, squarer rooms complain of either doubling or cancellation of the mid-bass, I've found that I have to leave the room and go into the kitchen (it's one of the two rooms on the other side of that 26' long wall) in order to hear the deepest bass. From the kitchen I'm about 18 - 20 feet from the front plane of the speakers, or about 9 feet from the sofa which is, otherwise, the sweet spot. I have no problem hearing down to about 50 Hz from the sofa, but in my present setup, that heartbeat at the beginning of DSOTM is a little less than impressive.

The wife has been more than accomodating as far as the stuff in the living room is concerned, but she drew the line at where my pair of subwoofers were placed. The bass comes quite a bit more alive when they are at either end of the room, but in a straight line with the sofa as opposed to being near the main speakers and behind them. I had investigated the idea of homemade tube traps a-la those that djose has mentioned above, but in my case, I don't think I'd gain anything.

 

A sound investment

There is a ton of information (literally a mountain of it) at Audio Asylum in the Tweaks section, you could use the search function (keyword: acoustic treatment) but you'll only get 200 hits, which is nothing. A better solution is to go to the A² (Audio Asylum) FAQS page and look for Jon Risch's web pages. He has a great site for building your own tube traps and all that stuff, and it works better than the $$$ commercial stuff. Be forewarned, he's an engineer, and his page is as dry as you'd expect from an engineer (but loaded with great info for the DIY guy).


There are basically two types of treatments, absorbers and reflectors. What kind of treatment you need is determined by your type of speakers, where they are located in the room and the dimensions of the room. Many things affect the sound you hear from your system (Dave, if you think those CD racks behind your speakers DON'T effect the sound you hear, you are wrong, my friend! ), such as whether the room is carpeted, the type of wall surface (stucco, paneling, drywall) and ceiling material (and what they are made with-- wood, cement, tiles) and even whether there are things hanging on the wall. Basically, everything vibrates and everything reflects all of that energy back into the room to create the unique acoustic signature of your listening room.

Is this all voodoo? Some people would have you believe so-- but to quote Tom Port, you can't outrun the laws of physics. Why does the bass sound better with the door open? Because it eliminates some of the standing waves in the room-- when the door was shut the bass wave was bouncing off the door and back into the room-- which canceled out some of the equivalent frequencies. That's not voodoo, it's physics.

Do room acoustics have any effect on your equipment? Uncorrected, it can make your good speakers (or amps, or anything) sound bad or strident, or muddy and boomy. It can really help you get a handle on your equipment and yet many folks don't want to give it a single thought. Most people feel it's easier to trade an amp out than to consider that maybe their real problem is that they need an acoustic treatment. Does your room need treatment? Unless you live in an anechoic chamber, it's extremely likely-- no matter how expensive your equipment is. Whether you want to be that fanatical about good sound is probably the better question, it's easier to rationalize!

Ask people at A² if acoustic treatments are a worthwhile investment in time and money.

 

Well put ClaviusB,

All I can add is that I found it important to get a handle on the sonics of the room before starting to utilize things like baffles and tube traps. That way you'll have a reference to see if any changes or positive or negative.

 

I enjoy using the Cardas setup every now and then...can't be beat for depth of soundstage and perfect imaging, IME. But in an average-sized room the speakers are *way* out there, and you end up sitting very close (in the near field). This is the standard Cardas setup, with speakers along the short wall of a rectangular room.

I see Cardas also now has a recommended setup for speakers along the long wall...has anyone tried that one? (Also based on the Golden Ratio).