Rush Power Windows 25 years later, what do you think?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by steeler1979, Apr 27, 2010.

  1. stax o' wax

    stax o' wax Forum Resident

    Location:
    The West
    It's a very sterile sounding album.
    I don't think Peter Collins was the right producer for these guys at all.
    PW is not a well produced album.
     
  2. Instant Dharma

    Instant Dharma Dude/man

    Location:
    CoCoCo, Ca
    I feel that way about Grace Under Pressure.
     
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  3. stax o' wax

    stax o' wax Forum Resident

    Location:
    The West
    I can understand that.
    GUP is a dark chilly album full of stark warning where the human race was heading.
    But that was the bands mindset at the time of recording that album.
    Alex Lifeson's tone and technique is amazing if you can appreciate that it was state of the art Delay/Chorus use, rivaled only by Andy Summers.
    It has an intensity to it that they would completely lose over the next couple albums.
     
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  4. Instant Dharma

    Instant Dharma Dude/man

    Location:
    CoCoCo, Ca
    If you listen to the demo of Power Windows you can hear a hint of the sound of P/G, for me I’m glad they moved past that sound.
     
  5. Nogoodnik

    Nogoodnik Celebrity Jeopardy and Mini Crossword smart

    Location:
    Saint Paul, MN
    In terms of their 80’s synth period, I always thought Grace Under Pressure was a stronger set of songs. It was also the perfect guitar-synth mixture, whereas I always thought Power Windows was too synth-heavy. Same with Signals.
     
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  6. stax o' wax

    stax o' wax Forum Resident

    Location:
    The West
    Yes but I thought it worked on Signals thanks to Terry Brown.
    As a guitarist when I heard Grace Under Pressure what blew me away was Lifesons's intensity to his playing.
    He's striking chords and letting them fill space, very powerful, austere, and emotional.
    Also check out his guitar solo on "Under The Wheels" maybe one of his most intense solo's and THAT says a lot!
    Pearts lyrics are filled with a dystopian concern that in my opinion became all too true.
    I think GUP is a thinking mans album and is a stark vision of where things were in 1984.......no coincidence there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  7. Nogoodnik

    Nogoodnik Celebrity Jeopardy and Mini Crossword smart

    Location:
    Saint Paul, MN
    Good point. I always did feel Signals was something I should revisit eventually. I did it with Power Windows recently, but I still didn’t think it was all that great.
    We’ll see!
     
  8. stax o' wax

    stax o' wax Forum Resident

    Location:
    The West
    Signals is a little uneven (side 2). but side 1 is all killer.
     
  9. Scroller

    Scroller Hair Metal, Smooth Jazz, New Age...it's all good

    I'm reading Limelight by Martin Popoff right now and I'm on the chapter of Power Windows. These are great books, extremely detailed with a ton of commentary by the band members themselves. Don't know exactly when he said it but I thought this was an interesting quote by Neil:

    When asked, Neil stood by the controversial era about to ensue, one marked by the pairing of the 1985 record and its follow up, Hold Your Fire, noting of Power Windows, "That's one I particularly really like. If you try to divorce yourself from musician to fan, I think as a fan, I would particularly like those records, just because they are such a feast to listen to: so much texture and so much variety and rhythmic exploration. To me they remain very satisfying pieces of work to listen to. So I think that's about the highest tribute I can give it: they are something I would like as a fan."
     
  10. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    If I may ask how does and orchestra and a choir date the album? If the member means the digital reverb then every album from 1979 - 1992 would be dated.

    Dated means it sounds like it comes from a period. No other band in 1985 was doing what Rush was doing. So how can it he dated?
     
  11. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I didn't say it was dated sounding. I said that another member meant that when it was asked what he meant.

    bamaaudio said:
    The cheesy mid 80s production is a turn off [...] .
     
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  12. Boaz

    Boaz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Israel.
    I adore Rush. But this album is not on par with their early albums. the spirit, so it seems, run out.
     
  13. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Cool. My bad.
     
  14. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    They can't all sound like Moving Pictures. Many consider Signals to be boring as freak. Not me!
    I felt that Counterparts was their last good album. Although Clockwork Angles was good.
     
  15. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Agreed. Although as much as I love Signals many consider the boring: Losing It and Chemistry to be fillers. A lot of fans left Rush over the 1982 Signals album. If only they brought up the guitars in the mix. Power Windows had power and guts but Hold Your Fire was too much keyboards. In fact the guitar and keys sounded almost the same. Great harmonies on the album just over done. I never liked the mix. It is so dense. Whereas Power Windows has space to move. Crowed with stuff but you can move. I hope I am still making sense at this point?
     
  16. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Plenty of delay and reverb on Fly By Night and Farewell To Kings. You just don't realize that it is there. An artist uses loads of reverb and delay on a 1970's album and no one cares. Check out the beginning of Cynus X-1. The opening bass line is Delay only. Or to be more exact The Effect Return channel is set to PRE FADER. Funny how no one points that out. Or the crazy phasing effect on the drums for By-Tor And The Snow Dog. Or how about all the plate reverb on No One At The Bridge from Caress Of Steel. Sounds like cherry picking to me. Apparently any use of digital reverb or delay between 1980 - 1989 automatically mean too much reverb. There is plate reverb thrown over the toms on DSOTM. (Stereo overheads). I guess no on noticed.
    Signals is also drowned in digital reverb. But apparently no one noticed. Listen to the guitars on Chemistry. (Hint!) You can hear all the plate reverb on them. Funny no one noticed it. As an audio engineer of 20 years I guess I spot things others will not. Just because you can't hear any reverb or delay doesn't mean it isn't there. The Abbey Road Reverb Trick is one way to put lots of delay/ reverb on a track and make it sound like a little bit was used. Or not at all. On your Return Channel EQ, you low cut below 500 hz and high cut at 5 000 hz.
     
  17. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    I have no problem with delay and reverb.

    As I said, in my opinion there is too much on Power Windows, and I think it sounds pretty poor. If you love it, that's great.
    I have done plenty of playing, recording etc, I understand the process, I just dont like the sound on Power Windows... it's that simple really.
     
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  18. Scroller

    Scroller Hair Metal, Smooth Jazz, New Age...it's all good

    In the book, there is a lot of detailed discussion with Peter Collins and why they went in the direction they did. It was of course, intentional to make it sound very different, otherworldly even, than anything they had done before - a very wet, echoey English pop type of sound. Peter Collins goes so far as to tell them that he thinks the earlier records sound "terrible" (GASP!), though he doesn't mention which ones specifically. Personally, I feel they went a little overboard with the wetness and the reverb. In fact, there's a spot that really stands out when they back off of the vocal overdubs and effects, when Geddy sings a few lines in Territories - "They shoot without shame.." etc. There's this huge contrast suddenly because his voice comes through so dryly compared to everything else, and quite frankly, it's a moment where his voice sounds the best on the entire record! You can finally hear personality and nuance because it isn't so cluttered up and drenched in effects.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
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  19. progmog

    progmog Senior Member

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I think Neil hit the proverbial nail on the head here. The texture, the variety and the different rhythms are precisely why I love 'Power Windows' so much. Even though there is so much going on, every song still manages to sound spontaneous.
     
  20. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    It is nice to post with a fellow musician. And it is nice to know that I don't have to spend a week trying to explain post and pre fader to you. LOL That's a relief!

    So you don't like Power Windows because of the overuse of effects?.... But what about the music? 7 out 8 of those songs have been performed live and are available on CD and DVD. No reverb there.. I think many of us would like to know your opinion about the music. I hate the sound quality of Presto. Too bright and bass shy but the music is good. So I say that I hate the production on Presto and not the album. I make the distinction.

    In regards to Power Windows it appears as if
    digital reverb was heaped on everything and the 80's digital reverb called attention to it's self. "Hey look at me I'm a church,"......."Now look at me I'm a 5 second tape delay." LOOK AT ME DAMN IT! I think I know what you mean. The 80's 16 bit keyboard samples might also have annoyed you as well.

    For example Chicago 21 is the most heavy effect record ever. There is even reverse phasing on Explain It To My Heart. Putting heavy Chorus effect on the horn track of God Save The Queen. I love the record but every song is drenched in effects. It is drowned in effects. It is as if the digital reverb put a gun to the mix engineers head and said, "O.k., now we gonna do things things my way."
     
  21. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Chemistry is not a killer track. The keyboards are so loud in the track. Hell, even the guitars sound like synths.
     
  22. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    I would like to know what record Collins is talking about.

    There is a lot going in Power Windows. It is
    Guitars, bass, 24 tracks of drums, multiple vocal tracks, 40 piece orchestra and choir. That is very busy. This is 47 track mix. If you include Effect Return channels you get at least 55 channels to mix! Even if no digital reverb was used it would sound crammed. Both Power Windows and Hold Your Fire are DDD. Although that isn't completely being honest. The drums were recorded to analog first and then later copied to a Sony 3324.

    Members keep taking about effects. You put reverb/delay on vocals. Not a single mix goes out today with dry vocals. And they are some stereo reverb probably over the guitars. Same thing that would have been done back in 1976. So if some member could get specific about what they mean by "Too much reverb."
     
  23. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Finally. Someone that loves Grace Under Pressure besides me. Every song blows me away.
     
  24. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    How can it be sterile with all that digital reverb on it? LOL

    Can you tell us what you mean by "Not well produced."

    Power Windows and Hold Your Fire sold well and had good sound quality. Although Alex got buried in the mix with Hold Your Fire. You can clearly hear every instrument.

    Let us look at the next two Rush albums. Presto and Roll The Bones. All engineered/produced by Rubert Hine. Both are bass shy and are super bright. In fact Roll The Bones has no low bass at all. The kick is 250 hz thud. It sound like the beater is hitting a cardboard box.

    Peter Collins' Power Windows and Hold Your Fire have a nice well rounded bottom end. And these albums don't kill your ears with unbearable brightness. And the kick is nice 60 hz thud.

    It is too bad that Presto is a great album ruined by bad production.
     
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  25. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    I agree mostly. But Power Windows is a different style of Rock compared to Moving Pictues.
     
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