SACD player - better with analogue or front chanel outputs

What method of connecting in stereo do you think makes the best sound - ICs in usual analogue outputs or front chanel outputs?

 

I remember reading when the Sony SCD-XA777ES was introduced that one should use the stereo analog outputs for stereo playback rather than the front-channel outputs that are part of the set of 5.1-channel outputs. This is supposedly because the dedicated stereo analog outputs have a better analog output stage. I don't know if this is true or not. Some folks also said on Audio Asylum back then that you could not even use the front-channel outputs from the 5.1-channel outputs for stereo playback, but that was later proven to be false. Perhaps the bit about different analog output stages is not true either.

Someone here also said that one set of stereo analog outputs is better than the second set on the Denon DVD-2900. The '2900 has one set labeled FL1/FR1 and FL2/FR2, and it was said here that the FL1/FR1 set is better for stereo material. I bought a '2900 two weeks ago and went with FL1/FR1 out of the box, so I don't know about this firsthand.

 

I think it's player-dependent. The Philips 963 for example recommends the front L/R of the 5.1 output for best stereo sound, NOT the 2-channel output. Don't know why they include it then.

John K.

 

Does anyone know which are best for the Pioneer 563A? I am burning it in at work, and have not hooked it up at home yet. In fact, it's not hooked up at work, just burning it in by playing SACD's and DVD-A's. I've heard that it depends on some machines which outputs to use - does it make a difference with this one?

 

Since I have a XA9000ES, a machine pretty similair to 777, I guess I'd better use analogue?

 

Give both a try. It can't hurt, and it might be interesting. That said, I doubt that the dedicated stereo analog outputs will be worse than using the front outputs from the 5.1-channel outputs. You might also do a search on the "Hi-Rez Highway" on www.audioasylum.com, as this may have been discussed with respect to the 'XA9000ES.

 

You should use the dedicated stereo outputs for stereo if you own an XA777ES acording to my Sony owners manual.

 

Gary, my SCD-XA777ES has been modified and I have no m/c capability, and certainly no output jacks other than the stereo XLRs - so I can't test this. I'd be interested in knowing whether there is any output on your player from other than the stereo outputs when a stereo or mono SACD is playing.

 

Geoff, In two years I've never hooked up the MC. The Two channel sounds really nice though even with redbook. I suspect that both outputs will not work at the same time though because you have to change settings in the player menu. It would be easy enough to check though. With you're modifications I doubt that there is anything you're missing from Multi Channel.

All the best,

Gary

 

I've A/B'd mine closely, and there's no audible difference between the two on my SACD Player (999ES).

 

Here is my $.02 worth. I have a very cheap player; a SONY DVP-NS755V which I have hooked up to my reciever in a combination of ways. I have the f/r of the multi-channel array hooked up to my reciever at the preamp input, bypassing all DSP circuitry. I also have the stereo only output from my player hooked up to my reciever via the CD input, in case I want to utilize some of my DSP circuitry. As a side note, I also have the digital output from my player hooked up to the reciever via fiber optic toslink for the dolby digital and DTS signal. With this array of hook ups between my player and my reciever, I have complete flexability.

 

Oh, of course. I wasn't thinking clearly. I was musing that output was coming out of the stereo jacks and the front L,R at the same time. Stupid me.

So when folks with a m/c setup (who only have the 6 surround jacks hooked up) play a mono/stereo SACD, the system knows not to route sound through the 2 channel outs? How?

 

If you had of read my previous post, there is output information at all outputs simultaniously. In my case, if I am listening to the Donovan STORYTELLER SACD for example, I can listen to this straight from my player straight to my preamp input if I choose, bypassing all unnessarry circuitry. If I want, I could push a button on my remote and route the same signal through my DSP circuitry if I choose to alter the signal in any way. There is simultanious information that can be switched back and forth, depending on how you want to listen to the music.

 

I read it all right - I just didn't absorb it all. Imagining all those wires was too complicated for me. Thanks.

 

Actually the connection set up between my SACD player and my system is quite complicated. I have 4 pairs of rca style analog cables, one toslink and one set of component video jacks hooking my player into my system, for a grand total of 12 individual wires. I like this set up because not only does it offer high resolution analog as well as direct digital connectivity, I am able to choose the signal path and processing circuitry to suit my moods or the music style. Of course my wife does not yet understand that it is one player, but yet for different discs you have to press different buttons on the reciever to get the music to sound right.

 

Metralla,
What mods where done too your 777, and by whom, if I may ask?

 

BIG ED,

Very extensive mods done by Ric Schultz of EVS - he lives in Boulder Creek in the Santa Cruz mountains, which is near me. The basics - SuperClock II and power supply, Black Gates (with the black plastic removed) and Vishays, stereo only (2 DAC boards disconnected), headphone amp disconnected, power switch bypassed, modifications to AC power input, custom output stage with fully-balanced output, all RCAs removed and two XLRs fitted, damping strips applied to spots on the circuit boards. The complex filtering has been replaced with a single-pole filter. Much work went into other areas but I'm not totally sure what he did. It took a long time for all the mods to be done. It's a bit quirky with some discs, but it's just an alignment problem.

I have some pictures on my Web site at http://www.geocities.com/ghtoz

Ric only modified two SCD-XA777ES machines, and mine is the only one with a balanced output stage. Ric did not like working on the machine that much, as it's heavy, a pain to open (so many screws), and there is not much room inside to add Vero boards for the custom mods. He thought in the early days that these machines would be good to modify, but now realizes that the cheaper Philips and Pioneer machines are a better platform, since they are less complex and more roomy inside, and really show up the improved sound - as you would expect.

Ric's main skills are in analogue circuit design. Aside from the low jitter through the use of the SuperClock, Ric's custom output stage is what really gives this machine the class A sound. This is a proven design - he uses a very similar output stage design on all of the SACD players he modifies.

 

I own a Sony C555ES, and if I recall correctly the word was that if you use the player in a multichannel capacity that you should use the multichannel outputs exclusively. On the Sony ES models at least, there is no difference in sound quality between the Front L/R outs and the 2-channel outs. I have listened to a few ES players (including my own) in stereo using both and they are the same. The other thing is, that if you hook up the 2-channel outs as well as the multichannel outs, there may be problems with impedance.

On another note, on these ES players (and most if not all others, AFAIK) when playing back a stereo SACD, the sound is output from the Front L/R and 2-Ch. outs simultaneously and when playing a multichannel SACD, the Front L/R and 2-Ch outs both play the Front L/R channels. When playing back CD's, the sound is sent to the digital, Front L/R and 2-Ch. outs simultaneously. I personally use the 5.1 outs for all SACD and CD playback and occasionally use the optical out for CD playback.

 

The XA777es is totally different than the other ES players. 2-Channel will only be active thru the 2-ch analog outs. The front L/R of the 5.1 outs is silent with any 2-ch source. The user has no choice. The 2-ch analog outs multiply the DACS for better sound. So, this is good. I had the 333es, 222es, 555es, and now the 777es. Great players.

John

 

I have my Pioneer 563A set up in the multichannel mode for DVD-A and SACD and have the digital coax hookup for DD and DTS soundtracks on my RCA RT2600, which is essentially the receiver I had before (RCA RT2350) plus the 6 channel input which the 2350 doesn't have.

 

Then I stand corrected as far as the 777ES is concerned.

 

I also own the DVP-NS755V, and did my own tests. I prefer to use the multi-channel analog outs for all music, because the receiver is prevented from doing any DSP monkey business. When I tried it using the stereo only output into the CD input, the receiver redirected the bass to the sub, and I also heard some graininess in the upper treble. I prefer not to use the sub for music.

I also use a digital cable for Dolby/DTS output, because the receiver does a good job w/ it. I can switch between any of the inputs on the fly because the player outputs all simultaneously (makes it nice for testing!).

Now, if you have a better receiver/amp (mine is the cheapie Sony STR-DE545), you might be able to disable any DSP (analog direct), and turn the sub off for specific inputs, but mine won't do that.

Doug

 

Doug,
On my Sony reciever, model STR-DE895, my sub woofer does not automatically kick in when I listen to music that is processed through the DSP circuitry. I can push my mode button and listen to "two Channel" only mode, no sub woofer, or I can activate the sub by pushing the AFD button, (automatic format direct). I also do not like the sound of a sub with just regular two channel music, to boomy for my tastes.

 

I have a Pioneer 563A and I have almost the exact opposite problem: When using the multichannel left and right front analog outputs for stereo sound, the player strips out bass below the crossover point, but DOESN'T redirect it to the multichannel bass output of the player. Maybe I could get around this by setting the fronts to large, maybe not...

If I use the stereo only analog outputs the whole frequency range is relayed to my receiver where it's then split into L, R, and SW. Obviously I can change the settings in the receiver at any point to use only the L and R fronts and no SW.

When I play a movie I use the coaxial digital output (not the Toslink).

So to sum up for the 563A:

Multichannel audio: use the 6 multichannel analog outputs
Stereo SACD, DVDa, or CD: use the 2 stereo only analog outputs
DVD-V, DD, DTS: use the coaxial digital output

With the power cord and the 3 composite video cables, this makes 13 wires coming out of the back of my player...