SACD ripping, Mac/Oppo. How, exactly?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by gd0, May 15, 2017.

  1. stereoptic

    stereoptic Anaglyphic GORT Staff

    Unless I am confusing your question, the only way that I know how to extract the Multichannel files from the ISO file is by using the ISO2DSD process and selecting "Multi" instead of "Dual".

    After I do the extract to create the .dsf files, (and modify the tags, add a folder.jpg, etc.) I use dbpoweramp to create 88.2 resolution FLAC files to save to another USB drive to play on another system that I have at a relative's house which can't process .dsf or dsd over pcm (dop). I do this for each of the stereo and multichannel SACD sections. My laptop is old and slow, so my SACD ripping/archiving process is moving along very slowly!
    Simon A and SamS like this.
  2. Sevoflurane

    Sevoflurane Forum Resident

    West Yorkshire
    Sorry, what I was getting at was whether people were using ISO2DSD to extract DSF files directly from the SACD player over a network as a single stage, or whether people were ripping the whole SACD as an ISO to their computer first, and then extracting DSF files from the ISO on their computer’s hard drive (which was what I did). I ripped 30 or so SACDs, most with multichannel and stereo audio, extracted the stereo audio soundtracks as DSF files and haven’t noticed glitches when playing back the rips on either my PC using Foobar and a DSD capable DAC or from hard drive on my Oppo 103D.

    I tried using ISO2DSD on Windows and OSX and found Windows much faster at extracting DSF files from ISO, though as my Windows machine is much newer and faster and the ISOs were on a SSD that is unsurprising.
  3. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    I need to get motivated to doing this. I don't mind converting to multi-channel PCM 24/88.2, but how the heck can I play that back via network? I need to look into Plex for this maybe.
  4. stereoptic

    stereoptic Anaglyphic GORT Staff

    I am going to give my 24/88 extracts a test run this weekend, at my relatives house.
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  5. Kal Rubinson

    Kal Rubinson Forum Resident

    Have you converted DST to DSF?
  6. dharmabumstead

    dharmabumstead Forum Resident

    The Oppo is connected to my network via wired Ethernet.

    I normally use the ISO2DSD front end on an iMac to extract a raw ISO file from the physical disc. As I mentioned, I am getting a different MD5 checksum every time I rip the same disc. This doesn't seem right - it should be bit-perfect. I should see the same MD5 checksum for the same physical disc no matter if it was ripped on the Oppo or on a PS3; and *certainly* if I rip the same disc again on the same player. I'm not, and I'm wondering if there's something wrong with the Oppo.

    I tried using the Windows version of ISO2DSD and (unsurprisingly) I'm getting the same results - different checksums every time.

    I tried using ISO2DSD to extract DSF files from the ISO image, and it's weird - some of the files checksum the same, and some different.

    I'm starting to wonder if there's a problem with the lens on my Oppo...
  7. Kal Rubinson

    Kal Rubinson Forum Resident

    Really? IMHO, the only reason to rip them is to play them (as DSF).

    BTW, I've done thousands of SACDs (no typo) and I have had problems with, perhaps, a dozen tracks.
  8. Kal Rubinson

    Kal Rubinson Forum Resident

    My experience is similar but for multichannel.
  9. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    Yes, my options in ISO2DSD are:

    Channel Mode: Dual
    Output Mode: Sony DSF
    Convert DST to DSD checked
    Print checked

    If you are using the Print feature you will know that the disc cat. no., genre, title, artist, number of audio regions, ISRC codes, etc. appear first, then you get a count-up as each track is processed, as well as an overall count-up for the album. When the ISO conversion fails there is a message thrown up with a sector number (if I remember correctly) and an arithmetic decoding error (if I'm also remembering correctly), but the processing continues, which is how I know that the audio glitches at the identified point(s).

    I did a Google search on the error message at the time, but found nothing of any use.
  10. Kal Rubinson

    Kal Rubinson Forum Resident

    I have to say that I have never seen that particular issue. Most of my problems relate to non-English text characters or with excessively long filepaths/names.
  11. TapeHoarderDude

    TapeHoarderDude New Member

    That's good to know. Thanks for clarifying.
    stereoptic likes this.
  12. mfidelity

    mfidelity Forum Resident

    San Francisco
    Question regarding multi-channel vs stereo ripping.

    I've ripped my SACD's to ISO (which I use for back-up) then I extract the stereo layer in "Dual" mode and play those files via Oppo usb port. Right now I only have a stereo setup so that is fine. My question is when I rip as "Raw ISO" am I getting both multi and stereo layers regardless what is selected in Channel Mode in ISO2DSD.

    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
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  13. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    Yes - the ISO setting makes a copy of the entire SACD layer, and therefore overrides the Dual/Multichannel setting when ripping.
    mfidelity and stereoptic like this.
  14. Joel Cairo

    Joel Cairo Video Gort Staff

    Portland, Oregon
    For those who like to have backups of their software, thought I'd just post an update to let everyone know that some of the 2012 machines from Sony, the BDP-S490 and BDP-S590 have been added to the confirmed list of machines that will rip SACDs... you can check the thread at Computer Audiophile, for details.

    - Kevin
    stereoptic, tmtomh, ivor and 5 others like this.
  15. ivor

    ivor Forum Resident

    Thanks for the heads up -- sure enough the dusty Sony player sitting under my TV was a BDP-S590. Excited to be ripping my SACDs as I speak!
  16. macdaddysinfo

    macdaddysinfo Forum Resident

    Tagging..? Does a program like kid3 write tags to dsf files..?
  17. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    mp3tag does: Mp3tag - Download

    No idea about others (outside of things like JRiver, etc.).
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  18. macdaddysinfo

    macdaddysinfo Forum Resident

    Thx. I am working within the Mac environment, though wine might be an option for mp3tag-I will start looking...
  19. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    Can't help you with Mac, I'm afraid!
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  20. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    XLD should do it - it also can convert SACD ISOs to DSF files.
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  21. macdaddysinfo

    macdaddysinfo Forum Resident

    Really? I just use it for cd>flac

    Wish I knew that before buying the iso> dsf program... oh well. Many thx
    tmtomh likes this.
  22. Yost

    Yost Always Wondered How Other People Did This

    Im using XLD to decode DSF (stereo) to WAV. Somehow the resulting files have lower DR than what is reported on the DR Database for those SACD rips. Is there some configuration in XLD that influences this?
  23. ivor

    ivor Forum Resident

    Metadatics on Mac is another option for dsf tags.
    macdaddysinfo likes this.
  24. macdaddysinfo

    macdaddysinfo Forum Resident

    This works just fine; in fact the dev actually wrapped it in wineskin already, so it is ready to go (using wine can be rough for the uninitiated)....

    Curious, when using iso2dsd, I am using the Sony dsf output. What are the Phillips and edit master formats all about..?

    Also-is there any chance this pioneer player will download and install firmware on its own? I used to to have a Ps3, so I don’t want to have this pioneer to do the same...

    Thx for the help!
  25. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    Firstly, that should be Philips (one L) -- the spelling skills of hackers these days are not what they were! :laugh:

    History lesson: believe it or not, but there was no commonality between Philips and Sony when it came to the early days of SACD. They used different physical interfaces, different bit-level/byte-level interleaving and different file structures. As you can imagine, this made interchanging files between the companies quite messy, and both sides had various format conversion routines to move from one thing to another.

    Consequently, it was decided to define a standardized file interchange format, and Philips took responsibility for that, creating the DSD Interchange File Format or DSDIFF, with a .dsf filetype. DSDIFF is a 'chunk' based file definition, and the curious can read all about it here:

    At the most basic level, DSDIFF was used for the recording of DSD audio, and became the format used within all DSD recorders/editors. Raw music files were MONO, and you would have one file for every 'track' of a multi-track recording.

    However, the goal of DSD recording was to produce SACD discs, and the audio would need to be mixed and edited into final form, and all track starts/track ends/index points/etc. added to the audio to inform a player of when track changes, etc. were taking place. For this purpose, an Edit Master file is needed, and, unlike the mono raw audio files, an EM file is multiplexed, and could contain 2-ch, 3-ch, 5.1-ch, etc. audio configurations. The EM file would be one of the inputs to SACD disc authoring. As you will see in the above linked file, an EM is a special case of the DSDIFF file format.

    Despite having numerous options, DSDIFF was created before file tagging became popular, so .dff does NOT support tagging (this is a shame, as it meant that SACD_Text information had to be transmitted separately to the disc authoring engineer, rather than embedded in the EM file). Therefore, at some point Sony produced a simpler version of DSDIFF with tagging support, and that is .dsf:

    As you can see, it too is a 'chunk' based file protocol.

    In terms of the audio data, the format is irrelevant. If you had tools that could play all the formats, they would all sound the same. However, the most convenient for home use is .dsf because it allows you to embed metadata.

    If you open a .dsf file in a HEX editor, and switch to a 4 byte wide display, you will be able to see the chunk definitions. The DSD version (sampling rate) used is given in hex, but with the order reversed, so,

    DSD64 = 2822400 = 0x2B1100 (hex) = 00 11 2B 00 (in the 'fmt' chunk)

    Similarly, DSD128 = 0x562200 (hex) and DSD256 = 0xAC4400.

    That's possible, and something that I hadn't considered. Depending on the features of your home-router, maybe you can prevent the Pioneer's IP address from having WAN access. Failing that, you could use a separate (very basic) router for ripping purposes (this would have no WAN access), and you simply move your PC connection as needed.

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