Sam Cooke's "Night Beat" SACD due from Analogue Productions

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Hank, Nov 10, 2009.

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  1. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I didn't notice that the new Harlem Square disc was that compressed, just that it was narrowed quite a bit, as much of the ABKCO material was. Luckily something that can be undone, however.
     
  2. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member

    Location:
    Kansas City
    Hoping Marino will mix the CD layer of Night Beat from scratch as the 2000 remix showed the 3 track source tapes sound great, but the mastering on that set left things to be desired. The original mix can be improved due to several drop outs and wear and tear.
     
  3. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member

    Location:
    Kansas City
    Massive compression on the current stand alone disc of Harlem. They tried to give it some balls but the approach fatigues the ear (yes, it's narrowed too, but I'm not talking about that aspect).

    If I can make a compression analogy, the Harlem stand alone disc currently in print sounds "RVG'd" -- that is similar in mastering to some of the early 1998-99 Blue Note RVGs which are widely criticized due to excessive mastering compression. :)
     
  4. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member

    Location:
    Kansas City
    BTW, glad to see this title coming. The release date says Jan 5, 2010.

    Question: Since many Blue Note and Impulse SACDs, most of which were announced about two years ago, have been in production purgatory and Acoustic Sounds has been silent on the matter, does this Sam Cooke SACD leapfrog said Blue Notes and Impulses in the SACD production queue?

    Why is it they can give a street date on the just announced Cooke SACD, but not for example, Idle Moments, which was announced as a coming product approximately 1.5-2 years ago?

    Are the Blue Note SACDs being abandoned or just further delayed to slot in titles that might sell more copies such as Nat King Cole, Elvis Presley and Sam Cooke?
     
  5. jojopuppyfish

    jojopuppyfish Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    Who is mastering this one?
     
  6. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member

    Location:
    Kansas City
    The product description says:

    "Mastered by George Marino at Sterling Sound from the original three-track masters. The SACD includes all three channels!"

    This could mean the CD layer will be a remix, but it's not clear. I guess I'm too used to reading MOFI product descriptions (like Sinatra in Paris) and now take any label's marketing verbiage about mastering with a grain of salt. I hope AP will clarify/confirm if the CD layer is a remix at some point before the street date.
     
  7. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    One would assume if the stereo programs were not a remix the copy would read "...from the original stereo and three-track masters".
     
  8. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member

    Location:
    Kansas City
    I never assume these days. I guess I'm too used to reading MOFI product descriptions (like Sinatra in Paris and Sinatra and Strings) and now take any label's marketing verbiage about mastering, source tapes etc with a grain of salt. I hope AP will clarify/confirm if the CD layer is a remix at some point before the street date.

    It certainly looks very promising that the CD layer will be a remix, but time will tell.
     
  9. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    To be clear, "stereo programs" would be more descriptive, as the SACD layer also has a stereo program.
     
  10. mknappe

    mknappe Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA, USA
    Did you miss the announcement on Nov.11? Three more Blue Note titles are now shipping...

    Acoustic Sounds New Arrivals
    November 11, 2009

    Now Shipping

    http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/49161?store=acousticsounds&keywords=NL111109
    Analogue Productions SACD
    Ike Quebec - Soul Samba Bossa Nova
    CBNJ 84114 SA - $30.00


    http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/49164?store=acousticsounds&keywords=NL111109
    Analogue Productions SACD
    Joe Henderson - Page One
    CBNJ 84140 SA - $30.00


    http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/49166?store=acousticsounds&keywords=NL111109
    Analogue Productions SACD
    Hank Mobley - A Caddy For Daddy
    CBNJ 84230 SA - $30.00
     
  11. Another Side

    Another Side Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    This is a great album, but I've always found the stereo mix to be a bit wimpy. The mix saps all the oomph out of the performances.

    In mono, the mix gels and comes together to create a more coherent and strong sounding reproduction of the performances.
     
  12. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    Can't speak for whether the stereo master is actually worn out/damaged or what not, but that statement seems unambiguous to me; the 3 tracks would be the session tapes and are stated as the source for this project, which would mean the 3 channel and 2 channel (CD layer as well) programs could be considered as new mixes.
     
  13. tubesandvinyl

    tubesandvinyl Forum Resident

    I'm all over this LP when Chad releases it. The original RCA sounds fantastic. "Lost and Lookin" is absolutely scary. I love Sam!
     
  14. art

    art Forum Resident

    Location:
    520
    Looks like the release date for the Night Beat SACD has been moved to December 21.
     
  15. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member

    Location:
    Kansas City
    Acoustic Sounds web site is showing the Night Beat SACD as a new arrival.

    I bought it and will report back. I'm unsure what to make of George Marino remastering this one. I'm not that familiar with this work. I wonder if it will be up to the level of the Gray/Hoffman Acoustech SACDs.

    Does anyone know how Marino remasters? Does he use tube gear? Did he remix the CD layer in the analog domain or in a digital workstation?
     
  16. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member

    Location:
    Kansas City
    Received the Night Beat SACD.

    I'm comparing the CD layer of the SACD to the 2001 CD reissue (OOP, but also a remix.)

    First, a little background. I've owned Night Beat in 3 digital configurations:

    1) 1995 Abkco CD - the original mix, but incredibly Abkco decided to resequence the tracks for the CD so they didn't match the original LP running order. This CD contained dropouts. I sold it a long time ago and no longer have it. The two track mixdown source they used was somewhat worn.
    2) 2001 BMG remix (out of print. same remix as on the 2000 box set)
    3) 2009 SACD remix

    In 2005, they reissued Night Beat from the original mixdown master tapes. I don't have this CD, nor have I heard it, as I picked up the companion 2005 remastered Harlem Square CD and found it to be heavily compressed by Bob Ludwig. I initially liked the 2005 Harlem remastering, but over time have found the compression problematic and guessed the 2005 Night Beat would suffer similar compression problems and thus did not purchase it.

    Therefore, my Night Beat comparison here focuses on the newly remixed CD layer of the SACD vs. the 2001 CD remix (the same remix as published on the 2000 box set).

    Initial impressions:

    a) The CD layer of the AP SACD has the vocals mixed lower than the 2001 remix. The AP has more natural sounding instruments and sounds more "neutral." The overall sound is darker. The AP appears to have greater dynamic freedom and lower relative loudness than the 2001 remix, suggesting compression was not employed on the AP.
    b) The 2001 BMG remix CD has significant EQ on the instruments. Upper and lower frequencies are "juiced up." This results in a more "detailed" sound, but the drawback is brittle and bright top end artifacting.

    After being used to Sam's vocals several db louder on the old 2001 remix, listening to the new AP mix initially takes some getting used to.

    The AP sounds like it could be a flat transfer compared to the EQ juicing on the 2001 remix.

    I'm still listening, but these are initial impressions. Anyone else receive the SACD?
     
    IronWaffle and CBackley like this.
  17. therockman

    therockman Senior Member In Memoriam

    Can you listen to the multichannel (3.0) SACD layer and report on that?
     
  18. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member

    Location:
    Kansas City
    Sorry, I don't have an SACD player, although I'm thinking of getting the Oppo 83.

    Suffice it to say the CD layer of the new AP cd sounds very neutral and natural. I've noticed on the AP the acoustic bass has greater depth, warmth and definition than the old 2001 BMG remix.

    For example, on "Lost and Lookin" the acoustic bass intro on the AP sounds natural and defined. In contrast, on the 2001 BMG remix, this same passage sounds "goosed up" with the bass evincing "flabby" and manipulated EQ/mastering artifacts.

    I'm still listening, but my initial feeling is that I would recommend the new AP SACD/CD remix/remaster.
     
  19. DJ WILBUR

    DJ WILBUR The Cappuccino Kid

    I need me one of these, but was going to get the 45rpm...now i'm not sure how to tread on this one...
     
  20. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member

    Location:
    Kansas City
    Another observation, the cymbals, high hat and tambourines etc are no longer ear-bleeders on the 2009 AP disc -- like they were on the old 2001 BMG CD, which was way too bright.
     
  21. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Assuming it was the same as the box set, I wouldn't call it "bright". Super wonky midrange but with a rolled off high end and NR.
     
  22. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member

    Location:
    Kansas City
    Fair enough. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
     
  23. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    It's just I would consider "bright" to be in the high end, not midrange. IIRC, when I remastered some of the tracks from the box set I had to bump up above 10k or so a bit and dial back around 5k quite a bit.
     
  24. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member

    Location:
    Kansas City
    Have done some additional listening:

    Another reason to buy the new AP SACD: the 2001 BMG remix CD has digital reverb on Sam's voice!

    The new AP SACD does not.

    This becomes especially obvious on "Lost And Lookin:'" on the 2001 disc, the reverb on Sam's voice has a stereo effect. On the new AP SACD, you just hear what appears to be the original plate reverb on Sam's voice, with the reverb decay strictly confined to the center of the image, with no stereo spread.
     
    IronWaffle likes this.
  25. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member

    Location:
    Kansas City
    On the 2001 disc, I've also noticed that Lost and Lookin begins fading out during the last 2 seconds as Sam is still singing. You still hear the song come to a natural conclusion on the 2001 disc, but the fade is unnecessary and premature, as if the remastering engineer was trying to hide hiss levels as the song concludes.

    In contrast, on the AP SACD, Lost and Lookin is NOT faded during the last two seconds.
    In addition there are no fades between tracks, so you hear the original tape hiss.

    I'm liking the AP SACD more and more....
     
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