Schiit Audio Syn

I was perusing through the thread Schiit Audio CDT "URD" last night (OK...huh...CD transport from Schiit...is it here yet?...not on Schiit's site...but there's a teaser there in...) and in the thread there was talk of a new product, the SYN. Curious, I went to Schiit and indeed, found this...

Schiit Audio: Audio Products Designed and Built in Texas and California (SYN UNIVERSAL SURROUND DAC/PREAMP/HEADPHONE AMP)

My take: It's the second coming of Hafler ambience recovery/Dynaco Quadapter and more! Looks like Schiit is taking the ambiance from the stereo signal then pumps it through op-amps so one can fiddle with the width and presence. They keep the L and R, probably sum them to get C, provide a mono loss-pass filter (-3db @80Hz) for LFE, and the ambiance goes through the surr L & R. Oh yeah, they throw in a DAC so you can pump 14/44.1 to 32/384 PCM into it, provide a line-level RCA in, and a headphone amp. $399 USD.
Interesting product; if I were a just two-channel and/or a Schiit gear (no pun intended) audio enthusiast and wanted some flexibility in trying to get surround sound out of my stereo signal, and a possibly decent PCM-only DAC...yeah, I'd try it. I'm too invested in my multi-channel already, so I'll pass. Looks pretty decent though.

 

I'm thinking it will work for me on the desktop as a headphone amp to replace a Magni Heresy; stacked with the black Bifrost 2 already there.

 

I have an aging Denon AVR-3808CI and was hoping a Schiit solution might simplify and replace, but with the Syn disregarding >2.0 source material, I will need to keep looking.

That said, the Syn looks like it could be fun and I would love to hear it next to the Denon's DPLII. The Denon accepts 5.1 external inputs, so adding this wouldn't be difficult and I would be able to use my superior DAC, but it is another box on the shelf, and I don't quite know where to put it. I hope it sells well enough that it will be around when I finally decide to buy it and try it out! I really like simulated surround with DPLII/Dolby Surround and would love to try out an all analog tweak.

 

Since this proves they can fit a lot of tricks in a small box, they should also enrich the Freya with tape loop(s), mono, loudness and bypass. And tone controls, including balance. And a headphone amp.

 

That's not the hafler circuit by a long shot. That's a whole lot closer to a Dolby pro-logic circuit.

 

I'm not saying it's the Hafler circuit; having used the Dynaco Quadapter in the past, it's more than fair to say the Schiit Syn is plenty more capable than that box of wires, resistors, a switch and a pot. Like David Hafler, when he brought to the market back in the 1970s (or before?) his ambience recovery method, what Jason Stoddard is doing with the Syn is he's working in the analog domain and the L & R difference. Agreed that what Schiit's doing with width and presence functionality does sure look like what one can do with Dolby ProLogic II.
One will probably have to go back several years to find a write-up on how Dolby came up with ProLogic and their second-generation iteration of that derived surround sound technology, but for those interested in a discussion about how Schiit came about creating their Syn product, here's a link: Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up | Page 7671 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org

 

@Kristofa, you could perhaps play your multi-channel physical format source material's stereo-only layer through the Syn, but...

I wish Schiit had included some sort of digital out on the Syn; doing so would have allowed the Syn to be hooked up via the appropriate digital input so one could use an AVR's room correction capability. Something like what's discussed in the thread Does a 5.1 Analog to Digital Converter exist? Such a converter, if it existed, who also would take oldish SACD and DVD-Audio players with 5.1 analog outs and allow them to play them multi-channel digitally through more modern processors/AVRs.

 

Some mates here wishing for digital signal processing, but that's precisely why they made SYN, to not have to deal with licences and obsolescence.
I really like SYN and it made me send for the Chase Technologies matrix surround processor (same as the Dynaco QD-1 series II but with line outs for center and surround channels).
I am sure the SYN does a better job about it but I liked so much how it sounds (just simple, analog movie sound) that I sold my AVR , just an entry level Sony so not a big deal.
What puts me off about the SYN is that lonely analog input, I mean, people also have turntables and cd players. Adding a switcher doesn't do it for me if it doesn't come with remote control, and right now there's none of that in amazon.

 

Fun SYN interview with Jason Stoddard...

https://www.youtube.com/live/49MnYVFo5_M?feature=share

 

its a fun tester for a future fully balanced Freya type larger multichannel pre-amp.

 

Get a Saga and use it as a switch in passive mode. Not sure if there will be remote controls interference, though.

 

don't have $700 to solve it that way but good idea.

 

I wish they had done more to create a center channel than simply summing the left and right channels. Something closer to this: Trinaural Processor — SST

To be fair, the SST Trinaural Processor sells for $3000. Like others, I'm looking forward to a slightly more upscale version of the Syn in a Freya type case. Perhaps we could also get a matching 3-channel amp.

 

Actually @lostinpr, the Saga S is $299 USD in black, $329 USD in silver. It has 5 analog RCA inputs and the remote you desire, take a look: Schiit Audio: Audio Products Designed and Built in Texas and California.
BTW, what sources, amp(s) and speakers are you using?

 

Yeah, that SST unit is in a different class compared to Syn. As for an upscale Freya like what @RPM suggests...ain't going to happen IMO. As for a 3-channel amp...again, ain't going to happen. Schiit primarily plays in the stereo realm. Also, they can say their foray into multi-channel is KISS and "...by not supporting any standards, Syn never goes obsolete when standards change", but I think it's also $$$ - technologies from Dolby and DTS doesn't come free.
If you want amplification for 3 channels...If you have super-efficient 8-ohm speakers and/or you have a nearfield setup, you could get creative - get as many Schiit Gjallarhorn amps as you need and operate them in mono mode to get 30 watts @ 8ohms. Going up the price point and power output, Vidar 2 can operate in mono as well, a whopping 400 watts @ 8ohms, and their "better-than-Class-A-in-many-respects" amp Aegir does 80 watts @ 8ohms mono...Do you own a mansion und a yacht?

 

I shouldn't have to point it out, but it's not exactly consistent with a KISS philosophy if, in order to get the Syn to work as intended, you need to purchase a separate mono amp (if you just want center channel), or a separate mono amp and stereo amp (if you want both center channel or surround). And of course there's the additional interconnects. What I like about the Ragnarok is that, when fully loaded, you have everything you need - DAC, Phono, preamp, stereo amp -- in one box. I'd like to see the Syn combined with a 3-channel amp in a single box. That's something I'd actually consider buying.

 

@dolstein, when I opined about Schiit and KISS, I was referring strictly to their implementation of surround sound and ambiance recovery. Them making Syn is most likely tapping into their huge fan base of existing owners and would-be enthusiasts, who are in the stereo camp but want/are willing to dabble in multi-channel. Yeah, I’d agree going the separates route is more ‘stuff’ to contend with; that’s why some folks go for the integrated amp route (like Ragnarok), or opt to get an AVR for multi-channel.
So you want a 3-channel Ragnarok…drop the Schiit folks a line (email or create a thread in HeadFi.org; Schiit’s active there). IMO they’re not going down that road, but if they do they’d go 5.1 - and again, no proprietary tech like Dolby, DTS, MQA, Dirac, etc. - they’d rather not deal with the licenses and keep the money to themselves. If they do build an AVIA, it’d be for them a big-box, say a double-stacked Ragnarok; ya got to have real estate to stuff those boards into a space.

 

The last few patents covering Dolby Digital expired in 2017, so it's free to implement. This is the original "AC-3" lossy implementation, though. I believe the original DTS codec is in the same boat, as they purposefully worked around the Dolby patents for their surround setup, and their compression algorithms have been out of patent for well over a decade.

Of course, you can't call your decoder Dolby Digital or DTS capable, just like you can implement Dolby noise reduction without a license but you can't call it Dolby NR.

Still, this seems like a great product, especially for those who want to experiment with surround sound while staying all-analog. I'm wondering what those few Q-Sound, Ambisonic and Dolby Surround records would sound like when run through this thing.

 

I wasn't thinking in terms of a surround receiver or 3-channel (front L/C/R) ragnarok. Although a trinaural receiver isn't necessarily a bad idea. But what I had in mind is a single box item you could pair with the Ragnarok. Analog center channel and surround left and right processing combined with a volume control and amplification for those three additional channels. All crammed into the same sized case as a the Ragnarok. That's something I'd be interested in. Not sure there are a lot of other people like me, so yeah, I'm not optimistic they'll go down that road.

 

Take ~50 minutes of time and check out the video @HIRES_FAN posted earlier in the thread.

 

yes, I know the Schiit lineup but I'm talking about 400 SYN plus 300 Saga. I have two SYS which can accommodate three sources with one of them accessible with the SYN remote.
if I don't find a used SYN in a couple of months I may be ordering one later on.
my sources are an Onkyo six-disc player with an Aiyima tube preamp fronting it, the cheap Audio-Technica TT and a portable Fiio DAC to connect phones and tablet to a Sony model 130 receiver (i have a Modi but that one serves in my bedroom setup); a suite of NHT Superzeros and Supercenter with the SVS SB-1000 sub.
because I am exploring matrix surround sound again after 30 years (the Chase Technologies decoder with lineouts for center and surround), I am using a couple of Chi-fi integrated amps for the center and surround channels, stereo for the surrounds and mono for the center channel.
with this simple (primitive if you like) decoder i am enjoying multichannel music a lot, the multichannel mode of the last two AVRs i had don't come close to this.
the surround experience in video is all right, I like how dialogue comes from the screen and not from a point under the tv, and of course the music in movies sounds natural with this decoder, I feel I am hearing true stereo from those soundtracks.
thanks for asking about my little setup!

 

pairing five channels of amplification with a preamp (separates) was a common sight in home theaters not so long ago; today we can do it cheaper with desktop speaker amps that sound great and occupy little space.

 

Yup, yup...Nothing synthesized or digitized with the Chase HTS-1 or Syn; it's in the matrix, although you'll get more flexibility with the Syn. Again, my multi-channel needs are fulfilled already - if it weren't, then Syn would be on the acquisition list.
You sure have a good number of buttons or toggles to go through to turn on your rig; you use a power strip with a on-off/reset switch? The one thing I wish Schiit would do is put the power switch in the front on all of their devices, not just on their non-flea power amplifiers.
You know Syn has three ins - USB, optical, and RCA analog. Why not plug the CD into the optical, the vinyl spinner into the RCA (then again...you can throw Sys there - but you'll have to get up and push buttons for your analog sources), and whatever that's USB into that socket?

 

Does anyone have experience with both the Syn and the Involve Surround Master v3?

 

all of those gadgets are on a power strip but I don't turn off the little ones, just the receiver and the cd player, the TT is auto-off so no worries.
I hear you about the Schiit on-off toggles on the back hee hee!
if I had a Syn right now my tv would go to the optical input and a Sys to the rca input so the cd player is the first choice with the remote; then a second Sys connected to that one which will have the TT and a DAC for portable sources. anyway I have to get up and change LPs so not a big problem there. the DAC has a long enough cable that I can deal with phones and tablets from my chair.
for now I have no use for that usb connector behind the Syn.
and with the Syn substituting my stereo receiver an Aiyima 07 will drive the main spkrs.
later on I could consider a good three-channel power amp for the three front spkrs.

BTW, are those type C connectors in the latest Schiit Modi?