Schiit Mani or Lounge Audio LCR or continue with my receivers phono?

I have a Music Hall Ikura turntable with a ortofon 2m blue cartridge connected to my Denon x4200 av receiver phono.
I am a newbie to vinyl and need advice.
Should I continue with my receiver phono or get the Schiit or Lounge?

 

What are you hoping to get out of the upgrade?

Do you live near radio and TV stations? If so, forget about the Mani.

RE: the Lounge, I never had one but was impressed with the level of customization that is available from the company. You may want to contact Lounge or look at one of the long Lounge threads for info on that.

In general, I think spending $250 or more on a phono stage should easily get you over and above whatever phono section might be in your receiver.

 

Lounge, hands down. And, while ordering from the owner - ask about the Silver upgrade. Worth every penny.

 

The input capacitance is a bit low on the Lounge if you are going to be continuing to use the 2M Blue. The 2M Blue's capacitance is between 150pf and 200pf, the Lounge is only 120pf. Also the load resistance is a bit high on the Lounge at 50K, the 2M Blue is at 47K. Although these are not way off, it will have an impact on the sound. You may want to consider a phono pre that has adjustable input capabilities, or one that is better suited for your cartridge.

 

I have the Mani + 2M Blue combo and I find it to be a fussy match. Because the output on the Ortofon is so high, you're stuck using the 30db setting on the Mani. Even with that low gain I still get some congestion and overload distortion on loud passages on some albums. And as stated above, there are well-documented issues with the Mani and RF interference. I can't do any A/B comparisons but I do feel like my noise floor is higher than it should be. YMMV of course, but I'm currently shopping for a tube phono pre with more adjustable input load/gain settings to better suit the Blue and give me more options for future cart upgrades.

 

If it comes down to those two, and budget is not an issue I too would say Lounge. I own both, and use both currently. (among other stages, I am a TT junkie and have way too many currently set up and active).

My Lounge has been upgraded to the Silver. The Mani is a very good stage, especially for the price - but direct comparison to the Lounge, especially the Silver version, to my ears the Lounge is more of the complete package across the range. The Mani is more configurable, that's a plus, as always it depends on your priorities, budget and ears.

As far as the built in phono on the x4200 -- I have three active Denon AVR's in my house right now, and two in storage -- two of them are current ones like your x4200 (x7200 and x3300) The only one I would even consider using the built in phono pre with (and that would be in a pinch) is the 4806, one of the older models. And even that one (its in my woodshop) I currently have the Mani installed instead of the built in -- it's driving an SL-1200. The newer AVR's, meh. You will notice an improvement in performance with either the Lounge or Mani.

If you really want a treat, and budget is still not an issue, send a note to Robert and ask him about the Max. I own one, it's one of his early versions, it was delivered about a month ago. Whoa.

 

This is good to know as I'm using a 2M Bronze with a Lounge w/silver. I'm still new to all of this and didn't realize the Lounge may not be the best match for the Bronze. Maybe I need an excuse to upgrade my phono preamp?

What's a good match for the Bronze under $1k new/used? I had been eyeballing a JC3 Jr. eventually but I'd need a deal on one.

 

The Jr is a great stage. There was a guy in Sherman Oaks, Cali selling one for months on CL for $1100 - he bought it and upgraded, and it only had a few hours use. I emailed with him off and on, he may have put in on Ebay, its been a few weeks since I contacted him. I can see if he still has it if you want by trying to reply to one of our emails - and if he does maybe get you in contact via PM.

 

One thing if thinking about a Jr - you can get a B Stock for I think $1199 from places like Safe and Sound (authorized dealer). What's good about that route is you get full warranty. If you buy Jr from someone used, Parasound doesn't transfer warranty to new owner. Something to consider - is it worth saving $100 but losing warranty?

OP sorry for the mini hijack.

 

OP - @patient_ot is too modest to say it - but last time I looked he had a MoFi Studio Phono is the Classifieds... in your price range. Never heard or owned one... but another one to consider between the Mani and Lounge price-wise.

 

Interconnect cables add capacitance, so it's a non-issue. As to the 50K vs 47K load resistance, I'd bet you need ears of gold, or platinum, better yet, to hear that difference, if any.

 

So you think I'm good with my Lounge and Bronze? My cable is an Audio Sensibilities Impact SE. What's a good phono pre that would be better than the Lounge for my combo that's under $1k new/used?

Sorry for threadjacking OP.

 

It still might be for sale, if I can't get things finalized with the current purchaser.

Re: the Studio Phono and the Mani, I had both and the Studio Phono was much better.

Never had a Lounge, though I considered one recently.

Ended up getting a Graham Slee Reflex M instead.

 

From speaking with Lounge, there are a number of upgrades that can be done either at the time of ordering or later. So that might be something you want to consider before buying an entirely new phono stage.

In the $1Kish range, I looked closely at the PS Audio NuWave, the Sutherland KC Vibe, and the Graham Slee Reflex M.

Since GS has a home loaner/audition program and the other companies don't, that won out for me. I would've had to purchase and return the other units to hear them in my system, which I didn't feel like doing.

The main things that attracted me to GS were very high overload margin and the focus on making a unit that was solely dedicated to allow high output cartridges sound their best. GS has some info on their website explaining the technical reasons for this.

Good luck in your search.

 

Yes, you're in the money. Not sure there is one better for under $1K. Just read this:

Gramophone Dreams #20: Lounge Audio & MoFi UltraDeck

 

Although I have never measured the capacitance of my cables, I can tell you that changing the settings of my pre by 100pf makes a difference. If I drop my setting from 200pf down to 100pf the clarity drops off greatly. As for the 3K difference in load, I don't know how that will effect the sound, I always match cartridge to pre, the great thing is you won't know what your missing. I have found that this cartridge can sound just OK with mediocre adjustments and absolutely stellar when a bit of time is spent dialing it in. This is from my experience, not an educated guess or something I read off the Interweb. I would also like to know what the input threshold is on the Lounge, The 2M Blue is rated for a 5mv output which is a bit at the top end, as well these cartridges are known to run a bit "hot".

 

the mani only has a load of 100pf and the gain can be configured to 42, 48 and so on. So it has a higher decile setting then the 30db that you mentioned.

 

The Lounge is set and forget. Won't the mani be better because it can be configured?

 

What's the silver upgrade?

 

Since the Mani has an input resistance of 100pf and the Lounge 120pf. Does this mean I need to forget about both of them since my cartridge is 150pf to 200pf?

 

I had a Mani for a while and thought it worked great. No interference. Never heard the Lounge but it is built by a guy here, and people seem to like them so if it is a match for your cart, get that.

 

The last pre I had before had the wrong capacitance, although it did sound good, it never sounded quite right to me. This is why I sought out a pre that was more flexible. I am not familiar with this pre and it sounds like you can speak directly with the engineer/builder, I would consult them and see what they have to say. Perhaps they can build one just for your application or maybe they have knowledge of how their pre acts with your cartridge, it does sound like they have a few options.

 

Silver wire replaces the copper wire, it makes a large difference in the the sound quality (for the better of course). I had my Lounge and Copla upgraded several months ago after learning of it here, and so glad I did. Should you place an order for a new Lounge and want the silver wire it will increase the cost of the unit by $125 or so.

 

I may not get the mani nor lounge after all. Im anal about things and the specs need to match my cartridge.

 

You may want to audition a Graham Slee Reflex M or Accession M then. These phono stages get around precise gain matching issues with high output cartridges by using a very high overload margin instead.

With the Reflex M, gain is set around 41db (fixed) and I can use any cart from 2M to 10MV output without worrying about it.

With the Lounge, you would simply go for a custom build and have the stage built with the exact amount of gain you need your cartridge.

I don't recommend the Mani anymore because:

1) It's just not that good if you have the budget for something better and

2) if you live near a radio station/TV station you may experience RFI/EMI. Not worth the trouble IMHO/IME.