Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by msinderson, Sep 5, 2019.
Well the million dollar question is, does the cartridge need to be shoved that far back in the headshell?
All the pics I've seen from Schiit seem to show the cartridge full-forward in the headshell. Most cartridges have 7 - 7.5mm stylus to mounting screw distances, with 7.5mm perhaps being the most common. The Denon is 7.5mm.
I'd love to have used one of my vinylengine printed protractors and attempted alignment with the cartridge towards the front of the headshell, and see how far off I was.
Regardless, if there is a problem, it isn't with the headshell being too short, it is that the arm wands were cut too long.
Edit to add: I've heard that the talent for Schiit is at the Rocky Mountain show, it will be interesting to see what they have to say when they get back.
The point is, you should be ABLE to shove the cart "that far back in the headshell" if you need to without squashing the leads. Thats why the headshell has those grooves in the first place. Some folks have carts that need weird angles/adjustments. Would it have killed Schitt to add 1/2 to the length of the headshell?
I mean, I'm a Huge Audio DIY kinda guy. Just that headshell thing alone is a Stop Sign.
Schiit has already acknowledged the problem, has stopped selling the product, and are working on a fix. I suspect it will include shortening the arm and possibly lengthening the headshell. Although that may not be required. It should be obvious what is required if they find the longest and shortest cartridges to test with.
I respectfully disagree.
If there is a problem (I'm not not saying there is) and the wand was shortened, you'd remove the need to push the cartridge back that far. The only reason you'd move the cartridge back is if the stylus to mounting hole distance was > 9.5mm (BTW, I've been saying 7.5 previously, the correct "typical" dimension is 9.5mm or 3/8"). And then you'd be moving the cartridge back just a few mm max.
Cartridges dimensions chart
...Ortofon cartridges measure 7 to 11mm on this stylus to mounting hole distance. That is a 4mm range, a little more than 1/8".
The stylus has to hit the overhang properly, and then the angle needs to be adjusted.
One would never have to push their cartridge back more.
I'm sure there are cartridges from other vendors with stylus to hole distances > 11mm. But still, you don't need huge amounts of adjustment, you only need to hit the overhang.
I understand where youre coming from, I truly do. But based on Winder's post above, it appears that Schiit has received enough complaints that they are redesigning the headshell. So, it seems that they do think this is a problem. It certainly would me to me.
There is a lot of speculation and hearsay on this one, I'll wait for Schiit's official response.
I do think the headshell looks sort of dated and clunky, perhaps they could dress that aspect up a little.
But provided the wand is of the correct length, the current design is perfectly adequate.
If the current headshell design were perfectly adequate, Schiit Audio would not have put a hold on sales. There is obviously a problem that will take some action on Schiit Audio's part to fix. This is obvious from the pictures from the link I posted much easier in this thread. There are other problems that need to be addressed as well.
I watch a lot of review videos these days just out of curiosity. It sort of gives you a feel for what's out there and the strengths and weaknesses.
I have all the TT's I need, but if they were all lost in a fire and I "had to" buy new, it would be a Fluance. Part of my reasoning is that I would never pay more than $500 for a TT. That's my price/feature/sound sweet spot. So this one is out of that range.
I don't understand what the point of your post is. It seems you have no interest in Sol, because it is out of your price range, and nothing to add, one way or the other, to the conversation.
Haha I just looked at the SOL setup video now..
And Schiit use exactly the same protractor computer program that prints the protractor that comes with the SOL.
Here is mine:
I do not understand what you mean. Actually when all is perfectly aligned with the protractor that comes with SOL. You should be able to hit exactly on each of the points WITHOUT turning the platter or paper anything.
This is accomplished by moving the cartridge back or forward along the two screw slots in the head shell. That is the overhang.
So when you can go back and forth between the two points without moving the template (and of course the cantaliver is parallel to the lines). Then you are done.
The video shows that they can not even make a setup video right.. That tells a lot about their inexperience with TT. When they put customers cartridges at risk by following their setup video.
I like the SRA on the fly but the VTF setting is horrible. But just for the on the fly SRA I give them Kudos for and that put a antiscating on that unipivot is better than some other big TT manufacturer..
With all due respect, that is incorrect. It is possible for the headshell to be fine, but for the wand to be too long.
For every MM you shorten the wand, you can move the cartridge forward in the headshell by that same MM.
At 9.5MM (3/8") stylus to mounting hole distance, that Denon should be very near the front of the slots, when properly aligned. Within about 2.5MM, actually. That means you'd also be able to accommodate a cartridge with a 7MM (about the lower limit) stylus to hole distance.
There is no point in making the headshell any larger than it absolutely needs to be. Just fix any overhang issue by addressing the wand length.
Right, but the paper first has to be positioned on the platter correctly, meaning the top horizontal line should point dead center of your pivot. You need to do that with a straightedge, eyeballing it isn't good enough.
Yes that is correct!
This thread shows the Internet working: real audiophiles providing accurate information about a much-awaited "value" product. Thanks, guys; along the way I am learning a great deal of useful information concerning TTs.
As someone ready to purchase the Sol, would benefit from users who have gotten it up and running and can assess its sound and compare it to other tables of similar capabilities. Never having used a Unipivot arm, would like to know how stable and practical this is. Would also benefit from general ergonomic information. Not sure that a TT that has to be nudged to start, has a separate motor that is a bit light with a poor, wandering belt, uncertain anti-skating, and arm alignment problems is realistic for daily use. Does Schiit intend this to be a specialty table for specific purpose? Used in conjunction with a "regular" TT for most daily use?
Once again, thanks, and especially you "Melted Townes."
Posted by Jason at Schiit Audio on another forum:
Okay, so here's the deal: we dun phucked up. We should have done a beta.
Soooooo...let's do a beta.
Soon, all Sol owners will be getting an email that goes something like this:
Okay, so it looks like the Sol launch has uncovered a lot more problems than we expected. Please accept our apologies for any trouble you may have had. We want this to be a really exceptional turntable, so we're putting a pause on sales.
We're also making you the following offer: please keep your Sol and help us improve it.
If you choose to do so, we'll refund $300 of the Sol's original price, making your cost $499. Then, we will send you a selected set of updates and changes to improve your Sol. Also, if you have any functional problems right now (like wobbling platters), we will swap those parts as well. And, at the end of the beta period, if you still aren't happy, we'll refund the rest of your purchase price.
Alternately, if you're just done with Sol right now, that's fine too. Contact us for an RA and we will refund 100% of your purchase price, taxes and shipping when we receive it back.
We sincerely hope you'll help us make Sol what it should be. If not, we completely understand.
So, yeah, I hope you stick with it. We're going to be doing everything we need to make this right, up to and including flying out Conrad to help us in real time. When we know a bit more, we can start sending updates to the beta testers. With luck, we'll be able to address the problems you've had and start shipping again within a month or two. If not, it might take a little longer. And when we relaunch, we'll make sure every turntable is pre-set-up for a "typical" cartridge, and there will be a standard cartridge option.
Again, apologies for the stupidity.
I like Schiit. But as long as I've been waiting for this TT, I also knew to hold back long enough to wait for this.
And whooooo-boy will this ever give detractors of the company plenty of ammo.
Really? I find it refreshing that they are being so honest about this. I almost wish I had purchased a Sol so I could be part of this process. Except I am really trying to avoid vinyl!!!
All this may be true, I don't doubt it, but I wouldn't want a turntable platter I have to push to get moving.
I think so, but detractors won't see it like that - not sure what it is about them - it is my impression that they are hated because they are affordable. Definitely putting my shekels together... putting second table on the market, reducing starbucks addiction to 1 latte a day... Again, not a shill - commented before that the headshell thing looked serious... and it is. The difference is Jason's post. That's how you should do it, IMHO.
I appreciate any comments and find them valuable. If we just heard from actual owners, the thread would be a lot shorter and less useful, at least to me.
They made a mistake that should be avoided. Bad.
They acknowledged it very quickly, however. They didn't come up with any stupid excuses, offered a 100% refund for all buyers no questions asked and an alternative for buyers to choose. Good.
That Jason is one clever dude.
He's admitted the problem and set something in place that is both fair to the early adopters and will guarantee ongoing publicity for this product going forward at very little cost.
Now they just have to get it right!
I don't think you have to push it to get it turning, but will have to wait for it to get up to speed. The Mission 775 deck took 7 seconds, an example of Mass Drive from way back.
Or you can do as the Linnies do and leave the platter rotating between sides. I wouldn't, but I'm not a Linnie.
I'll give them credit for stepping up. In the past this company has been anything but forthcoming and efficient with responding to problem products. Let's see how they do. A wrong move here and they could lose a lot of money and reputation value real quick. Flying out CH seems like a good idea.
One thing I dislike is people having to pay for the privilege of becoming beta testers. If anything, the company should be paying these people. My opinion. At least the refund option exists.
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