Schitt Freya: why do I have to turn the volume up so high

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Boulder Bob, Nov 27, 2022.

  1. Boulder Bob

    Boulder Bob Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Boulder, CO
    Just unboxed my new Freya. Breaking it in right now.

    Seems like the position of the volume control is very extreme compared to my old preamp (obscure Professional Systems Engineering Studio SL). In differential buffer mode with single ended input from a Lounge Audio phono preamp I am nearly maxed out on the volume control. It's better with tube gain but I'm still at 3 o'clock when I used to be at 11:30.

    It's better with my Gustard DAC using the balanced inputs.

    My power amps (monoblocks) are Bryston ST Series 7B. I'm using the balanced outputs on the Freya. Speakers are Magnepan Tympanis.

    Do I have an impedance mismatch?

    I have sent Schiit an email....
     
  2. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    It’s a low gain preamplifier for one. Many preamps and integrateds have way more gain than necessary, though IME the Freya could benefit from more.

    Secondly, the stepped attenuation volume control does not adjust volume in quite the same logarithmic fashion as the typical taper pot to which you’re likely accustomed.

    My advice is to ditch it for a real tube preamp that actually sounds like tubes, or get a high quality passive pre from the likes of Khozmo, since the Freya sounds best in passive mode anyway. Don’t waste your time tube rolling either, it’ll just leave you disappointed and your wallet lighter.
     
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  3. Opeth

    Opeth Forum Resident

    Location:
    NH
    I have a Freya S with dual Aegirs. On 4x gain I'm usually at 12 o'clock on the the volume when using balanced DAC.
    When I swap to SE input for phono stage I'm around 1:30-2 o'clock. Still tons of headroom. The gain on the amps matter of course. Aegirs are 22 gain.
     
    Boulder Bob likes this.
  4. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    The Freya S has a lot more gain than the Freya does in its differential buffer mode. The Freya is pretty much only capable of unity gain when not in tube mode.
     
  5. Boulder Bob

    Boulder Bob Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Boulder, CO
    thanks - can you recommend a tube preamp in the $1000 range?
     
  6. FromMysticStreet

    FromMysticStreet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston
    I felt the same way and ended up returning mine. I couldn’t get enough volume with my phono setup even maxed out. However many people seem to love this preamp.
     
    jusbe and Boulder Bob like this.
  7. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
  8. DJSpinner

    DJSpinner Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vermont
    If I'm reading the specs correctly, with the Freya's output impedance of 600 ohms going into the Bryston's 5kΩ, you're a bit under the 10x rule of thumb? Regardless, I hover around 12 o'clock on the volume knob for my Freya, closer to 1pm when I switched to a HOMC cartridge. As long as you're enjoying what you're hearing and not getting any distortion, it shouldn't really matter what position your volume knob is at?

    I disagree with @Helom to a degree about the tube rolling. You can improve or at least modify the sound from the stock tubes, but (especially nowadays) its going to cost you. I put a pair of 50's Tung Sol mouse ears in the gain stage to experienced a much sweeter sound and a more impactful bass.

    You can definitely find a better tube preamps in the used market, but I enjoy having a tube preamp that has the option of a passive mode - for hot summers or when I don't feel like waiting for the tubes to warm up.
     
    unclefred and Rick58 like this.
  9. hifisoup

    hifisoup @hearmoremusic on Instagram

    Location:
    USA
    I would wait and talk with Schitt’s techs before changing. The Freya has to good of a following to be thrown out so quickly.

    Recently I learned about passive preamps and decided I wanted to experiment with this and found that Schitt’s Sys can be used in passive preamp mode. It sounds amazing with lots of gain. I then added their Magni Heresy to the Sys and wow…clean, great dynamics and more than enough gain. Sounds amazing with my bridged Technics power amp.

    And, anyone who forms opinions of the Freya’s performance and how it stacks up against other brands they have not heard should be discounted immediately.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
    unclefred and Neil S. Bulk like this.
  10. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Anyone who judges the Freya’s performance based on the hype train and who lacks experience with other tube pres should be discounted immediately.

    I owned the Freya+ for at least six months. In that time I tried at least a dozen NOS tube combos, including a couple relatively expensive options like the Tung Sol “Mouse Ears.” Though the Tung Sols improved the sound of the tube stage, passive mode remained clearly superior. There is an ever present “grain” in the tube mode of the Freya that remains regardless of tubes used. It’s not so apparent though until you switch to the passive or JFET modes. Regardless, one can get the Topping Pre90 for $599 which handily outperforms the Freya in any of its modes. The preamp section of my departed Yamaha A-S1100 integrated sounded far more euphoric and tube-like than the Freya ever did. Shoot, the OP could get one of those for about ~$1400 and he’d have a much better preamp and an attached amp as a bonus.
     
    timind likes this.
  11. trickness

    trickness Gotta painful yellow headache

    Location:
    Manhattan
    I went through (owned) a bunch of Schitt headphone amps both tube hybrid (rolled tubes too) and solid state AND tried to like their flagship integrated amp and honestly, I didn't find any of it to sound particularly musical. I do have a Yggy A2 which I quite like, and I think DACs are what they do best. Just IMHO.
     
  12. addicted2

    addicted2 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    north east USA
    I have not heard many tube preamps and can admit I have not heard a high end one but the schitt freya DEFINITELY changes its tone from tube to tube. I have several marconi and sylvania tubes that significantly improved the sound from my freya +
     
    unclefred likes this.
  13. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Tone is only one variable in the tube sound quality equation.
     
  14. terzinator

    terzinator boots lost in transit

    I swapped the stock J/J's for some old Sylvania's in mine and I thought it made a positive difference. (And I rarely can tell the difference with things.)
     
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  15. rhing

    rhing Forum Resident

    I have the Freya+ and I also have another system with an Audio Research LS7 tube line stage. I have had the opportunity to audition a few tube preamps including a Conrad Johnson PV-10B, an Audible Illusions Modulus 3, and a DIY octal Aikido. In my system and to my ears, the Freya+ sounds fantastic and can hold its own against other tube preamps. It doesn’t offer a lot of gain as mentioned earlier, but fitted with the right 6SN7 tubes, it can be really rewarding as a balanced tube line stage preamp with 12dB gain, or a balanced JFET buffer stage.

    In balanced mode using a balanced source, Denafrips Pontus II, and a balanced Pass DIY Aleph J Class A solid state amp, I really enjoy the musicality and large holographic soundstage. Along with a Schiit Mani 2 phono stage, it presents an equally satisfying performance with my vinyl playback in single-ended mode.

    It might not make everyone’s list of preferred tube preamps, but it is worth evaluating for the two week trial period that Schiit Audio offers. On top of that, it has been reliable for the 18 months I’ve owned the Freya+.
     
  16. FJC1966

    FJC1966 The Prestonian

    Location:
    Lancashire, U.K.
    Schitt Freya: why do I have to turn the volume up so high

    This thread title reads like a concerned question to a Nordic girlfriend....
     
    Aftermath, Warbs, Dave and 7 others like this.
  17. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    A positive difference does not necessarily equate to good overall performance.

    The passive mode of the Freya sounds far more refined.

    The pattern I’ve noticed is that multi-stage tube preamps don’t perform nearly as well as single gain stage units. They tend to just sound like unrefined solid-state. The Freya does pretty well with soundstage width, but falls short on depth, bloom and the 3-dimensional holographic effect that good tube gear achieves.

    I would be far more inclined to try the Freya with the MOSFET Lisst plugs rather than to shell out the dough for expensive tubes. I would not be surprised if it sounds far more tube like with the Lissts.
     
  18. terzinator

    terzinator boots lost in transit

    well yeah, that's true for a lot of things, but you said don't waste your money, and what do we do here but waste money?
     
    Helom and RunningWithScissors like this.
  19. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    The gain specs for the Freya + are-

    Compound Differential Buffer
    Gain: 1 (0dB)

    Tube Gain
    Gain: 4 (12dB)

    LISST Gain
    Gain: 5 (14dB)

    Of course Passive mode would also be 0dB of gain.

    Using phono with a low gain or passive line stage can certainly be a challenge. 12 or 14db of gain on the tube or Mosfet settings should be plenty though. You certainly have enough power amplifiers!!! Can't imagine needing to go to 3 o'clock with those Bryston monoblocks, even in passive mode.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
  20. hifisoup

    hifisoup @hearmoremusic on Instagram

    Location:
    USA
    @Boulder Bob - Bob, were you able to talk to Schiit tech about your Freya? Interested to hear what their response to your issue is. Thanks.
     
  21. Boulder Bob

    Boulder Bob Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Boulder, CO
    I'm about 7o hours into break in. Preamp may be opening up a bit, but I still feel like I have more break in time in front of me. I'm keeping the unit on 24/7 with a CD player on repeat into a line level input. Using tube mode. I have some tested, matched NOS RCA 6SN7 tubes that say "Made In Holland" - I think this is a Phillips factory

    Here's my email to Schitt:

    "Just unboxed my new Freya - order# 373761. Breaking it in right now.

    Seems like the position of the volume control is very extreme compared to my old preamp (obscure Professional Systems Engineering Studio SL). In differential buffer mode with single ended input from a Lounge Audio phono preamp I am maxed out on the volume control. It's better with tube gain but I'm still at 3 o'clock when I used to be at 11:30.

    It's better with my Gustard DAC using the balanced inputs.

    My power amps (monoblocks) are Bryston ST Series 7B. I'm using the balanced outputs on the Freya. Speakers are Magnepan Tympanis.

    Do I have an impedance mismatch? I have some really good NOS 6NS7s. Should I be trying 6SL7s? I have some old US made ones but I haven't had them tested to see if I can get a matched pair."

    Here's the Schitt response:

    "Hi Bob,

    The differential buffer is meant for use with balanced output only which is why it's so much quieter. There are a few factors to why the volume control on the Freya is different. First of all most preamps use a potentiometer, the Freya uses a relay step attenuator, which has 128 precise steps. So in essence the gain is divided evenly throughout the 128 precise steps where as on other potentiometers it's not this even. Secondly, each preamp will have its own gain, the Freya does a maximum of 12db of gain, some other preamps might have more or less.

    You can definitely test some other tubes although I doubt they will increase the gain much. We sell LISST solid state tubes that increase the gain by another 2db in gain mode that might help. Maggies are pretty demanding speakers but those Bryston's put out an incredible amount of power. Make sure you're running XLR outputs in them instead of RCA too.


    Best,
    Daniel"



    Here's my response back - I have not gotten a reply, not sure if I'm expecting one

    "Thanks, Daniel - I am a little confused by your response. Your first sentence says "the differential buffer is meant for use with balanced output only". Then your last sentence ""Make sure your running XLR outputs in them too"."

    Did you mean the differential buffer is meant for use with the balanced inputs on the Freya? I say this because of your last sentence "RCA too" I think I'm confusing your meanings of inputs and outputs.

    Anyway, thanks for responding. I think the unit is working as designed.

    Bob"
     
    hifisoup likes this.
  22. ktg807

    ktg807 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lakewood, OH
    If you turn it up to 90% or 100% is it louder than you'll ever need it? If so then why does it matter where the volume knob sits when comfortably listening to your system?

    Not to seem pendantic or anything. I have a Saga+ and the volume knob is around 1PM where my old integrated amp sat around 10AM. I too was a little annoyed when I first noticed how high I had to leave it but I never push it much passed 3PM anyway so I stopped caring.
     
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  23. Boulder Bob

    Boulder Bob Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Boulder, CO
    I hear what you are saying. I need to be convinced that I'm getting enough "slam" or impact. Sometimes I feel like if you not "hitting the input hard enough" you're not getting the most out of the amp - this may be part of my guitar amp upbringing...

    After a few more days, I will go back to my old preamp and do some comparing
     
    hifisoup likes this.
  24. DJSpinner

    DJSpinner Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vermont
    I believe he's basically saying there's no utility in using the differential buffer mode unless you are using XLR/balanced out from the Freya to the power amp(s).
     
    Boulder Bob likes this.
  25. DancingSea

    DancingSea Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maui, Hawaii
    Prior to owning the Decware CSP3 I did not understand the significance of gain. Being able to adjust the gain for various speakers and recordings has been a gain, er, game changer.
     
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