Seas a 26 kit. Devore 093/096 style

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by murphythecat, Nov 28, 2018.

  1. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    My Stirlings are rated at 87db but Stereophile rated the larger LS3/6s at only 84db. With my Benchmark amp set to it's medium gain, I have yet to max out the volume control on my Schiit Freya, but last night I maxed it out multiple times while playing the A26s. It might be that the A26s are lower in distortion and I didn't realize how loud they were playing. That said, I would guess their sensitivity at no higher than 88 and no lower than 85.
     
  2. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    My Spendors also prefer solid state. I do have a friend’s Atlas Magnum II in house and it makes for a good pairing but still lacks the bass grip I get with the Benchmark. Spendor drivers have much lower-compliance suspensions than these 10” Seas units. The Seas surrounds are rubber but the compliance feels a lot like foam. They might require as much power as the Spendors concerning loud playback levels, but probably take fewer watts to come alive.
     
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  3. marskem

    marskem New Member

    Location:
    Portland
    Nice pictures and clean build! Thanks for sharing all the info so far. Didn't the kit come with a piece of black foam for the slot? Maybe I'm just imagining something I read.
     
  4. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    very nice ! i bet they sound great. no substitute for a big woofer.
     
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  5. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    and a very new woofer that needs some hours of attention !
     
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  6. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    It did come with some poorly cut pieces of foam, as if they were cut by a three-year-old with a machete.
     
  7. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    if you ever want more diy adventure those woofers respond very well to larger cab volume. like a really low F3.
     
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  8. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    Do you have measurements of in room for your A26? In my room, they are flat down to 45hz, then -6db at 30hz.

    As of now I’m getting the sort of bass I expect from a 7” driver.
    I agree with this, but there's a caveat, maybe you will agree? when you play those 7" driver in the 95db range, then the A26 sound less strained, congested and lower distortion then basically any 7" midbass. and the way a 7" cone moves at high volume especially one vinyl's always makes me nervous and cant help but feel it affects performance (IMD distortion) . I definitely listen way louder with the A26 vs the Shl5 for example. The Harbeth definitely has better mids, but personally at high volume I find the harbeth harsh, whereas the A26 only seem better and better the louder you use them (though I never pass the 100db mark in my room). Id say this is a combination of the smoothness of the dome tweeter and ease of the woofer.

    Anyways, any updates on your impressions of the A26?
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  9. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I decided to install threaded inserts for the woofer screws and they're currently out of the system while I await arrival of new gasket tape. I figured I better switch to machine screws since I'll likely be removing the woofers multiple times until I get the damping perfected. That was a learning process since I hadn't ever before installed inserts into wood/MDF. Luckily it went smoothly.

    In the meantime I've been listening to my SB-88s and it's been quite a contrast. I'm now questioning whether I actually prefer the tweeters in the 88s. They roll-off earlier but as of now they sound more refined. The mids and bass extension are definitely better in the Stirlings. I suppose the A26s need a lot more break-in though.
     
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  10. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    the tweeters in the 88 are crossed over relatively high at 3khz and sound refined because they are not being strained with lower frequencies.
    the a26 tweeters have a first order crossover which cuts lower frequencies 6db per octave electrically.
    i am guessing they are crossed over at 2000 hz or so, which means there is a fair amount of energy reaching the tweeter 1000 hz and 500 hz is only down 12db electrically.
    not saying the tweeter cannot handle low frequencies but it could be challenging if not impossible to sound as refined as your stirlings.
    also the woofers have no low pass filter. even though it rolls off well acoustically you might be hearing some high frequency break up from the woofer.
    just my experience playing around with crossover frequencies and slopes in my car's active system for the past 5 years. my woofers are designed for acoustic roll off but they sound so much better crossed at 1800 hz 18 db per octave.
    i contemplated buying a set of the a26 and the first thing i thought would be to put a steep low pass on the woofer at 2000hz.
    the response curve on the madisound site shows a peak at 4000hz that is only 10db down from baseline. that is definitely audible and can't sound good.
    you are in diy mode and crossovers are an easy, fun experiment. lots of online calculators that work very well.
     
  11. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Based on the supplied capacitor and 12ohm attenuator, the crossover frequency should be closer to 2700Hz.

    I'm not sure the 4kHz peak of the woofer would be all that objectionable despite being audible at 10db down, especially given that a 10" woofer will have narrow dispersion at that frequency and I'm not listening straight on-axis. I would bet that the peak is mostly gone by the time the speaker is 15° off-axis. This peak is reflected some in the total response graphs but it's about the same level as the lower midband.
     
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  12. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    easy to test, listen without tweeters and see if you hear anything harsh...
     
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  13. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    SEAS The Art Of Sound Perfection

    at 30 degree off axis, the 4khz peak is -14db compared to 1.7khz

    the trick with the A26 is to listen to them with almost no toe in to get a response at the LP of that 30 degree off axis

    curious how much the break in will affect that!
     
  14. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I don't really detect any harshness though, it's only that as of now the Stirlings would be my preference in absolute terms.
     
  15. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    My A26s are back in service. I used these inserts "Parts Express #8-32 Barbed Body Insert Nuts 50 Pcs." from www.parts-express.com! and 8-32 brass machine screws for the woofer this time around. Screws were torqued to 10 in-lbs (yes, driver torque matters IME).

    I wanted to experiment with the back-wave absorption, so I cut and doubled up some of the foam sheet supplied with the kit. They now have 1" of foam in front of the capacitor and TD-cup, along with the 1" of No-Rez on the rear baffle for 2" total of back-wave absorption.

    I removed all 50g or so of Poly-fill and instead placed only the 12g of recommended fill in the vent slot.

    I'm not sure what is responsible for what but this cleaned up the midrange significantly and improved bass depth a fair bit. I also replaced the 12ohm resistors with the 15ohm which make for a more balanced response to these ears.

    I'd say these tweaks improved the overall sound by a good 10%.
     
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  16. marskem

    marskem New Member

    Location:
    Portland
    Thanks for the updates. Still reading and look forward to your final assessment down the road.
     
  17. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    same experience for me too.
    Ive put roxul fiberglass 4 inch thick and covered the entire back wall (and since its 4 inch it covers almost half of the side panel and top and bottom panel.
    Like you, I also found it really cleaned up the midrange. I also started with 15 ohm, ive went back to 12 ohm. I find the 12 ohm too bright, but the 15 ohm too dark lol. so i went with the 12 ohm, no toe in approach.

    that woofer reminds me of a wideband driver (small magnet, thin paper cone, no xo), so just like any Lowthers or Fostex, the backwave control (absorption) is primordial for good sound
     
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  18. bhazen

    bhazen Fab Fourever!

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    If I had a spare $3,500 (introductory price) --

    Omega DynaTen Monitors

    Interesting detail: a port (aperiodic vent?) is on the back. Wonder what sonic implications that portends? ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
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  19. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    Dumb pricing, at 3500$ USD, the A26 face some serious commercial speakers ( used speakers like : Harbeth shl5plus, Graham ls59, Amphion one18, ATC SCM20, etc)

    why do they put the woofer and tweeter so far apart?

    These are literally Seas A26 XO and drivers, simply in a bigger cab. so they are asking 2000$ for speaker cabinets.

    EDIT: WAIT a minute: the tweeter on that omega is definitely not the Seas T35C...

    what a joke, they didnt even use the premium A26 tweeter 1.5", but rather used a cheaper Seas 1".
     
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  20. bhazen

    bhazen Fab Fourever!

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    I think they might be going after the Orangutan customer rather than the A26 ... O-series are waaay more $$$.

    Edit: good catch. I'd want the bigger tweeter a la the original A25, though. A 1" probably won't give you that particular warmer frequency response.
     
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  21. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I agree. A poor value proposition at $3500, let alone the $6K “original price” he is proposing.

    One could probably have a local woodworker craft similar cabinets for under $1K. Add that to the A26 kit price and you’re still saving a good $1K vs this Omega speaker.
     
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  22. james

    james Summon The Queen

    Location:
    Annapolis
    And the custom stands? And profit margin?

    isn’t that how every commercial speaker works, more or less?
     
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  23. bhazen

    bhazen Fab Fourever!

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    Yeah ... I don't think the Omega speaker is competing with Madisound. They're going after DeVore, whose near-equivalent the O/93 goes for something north of $8k!
     
  24. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Sure, but DeVores have a custom version of that Seas woofer, and custom tweeters. The cabinets are likely nicer as well. And of course DeVore has to factor in dealer margin.

    I’d have to hear them to say for certain, but on paper I’d rather have the A26 at half the price. I suppose $3K isn’t too bad considering they come fully assembled with a warranty, but $6K? If Omega operated under a standard distribution model and were not competing with the likes of Spatial Audio then the pricing would make more sense.
     
  25. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    this
    Devore use a different woofer all together, more efficient, different motor, ect. its not like the seas a26 woofer.
    still, I heard the Devore o93, extremely overpriced imo
     
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