Seeking recommendations for sanely-priced full-range speakers

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Benzion, Aug 10, 2019.

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  1. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    no problem with subs, but there are plenty of non super expensive speakers out there that can do with out them. They may be kinda large though. But you don;t necessarily have to spend $10K or more==
     
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  2. Balthazar

    Balthazar Forum Resident

    You're not getting paid to go on multiple audio forums and shill up every thread you participate in with your endless AN monomania? Weird. I assumed you were some sort of guerrilla marketing profile.
     
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  3. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    1) Sound is subjective - I like em and I recommend them and I think they sound leagues better than Spendor. People have a problem with me recommending AN but if you recommend Spendor - that's ok?

    2) Value - is largely dependent on the perceived sound quality - if I rank the AN K/Lx an 80/100 for overall sound and more expensive Speakers as a 58/100 or 48/100 for overall sound then I perceive the AN K to be a VASTLY superior value to those other speakers.

    3)My anecdotal story has held up across customers worldwide. It is not just a one off. An original pair of AN K/D speakers sold for $600 back in 1993 and in a second hand shop was selling for $800 in US equivalency (price firm). It happens all the time no matter who the owner is. Some people undersell their speakers or amps. If so and you get lucky that's great - you are the exception however.

    4) Product comparison - All An speakers began life as an entry level product based ont he Snells - then because people wanted more - they made higher level products. There are $20k, $50k, $70k, $200k AN E speakers because people loved the $3k versions so much.

    Regardless I tend to compare every other speaker to the near entry level Lx models. Largely because most other companies use a copper internal cable which is much cheaper and the LX is Audio Note's copper wired speaker

    The AN K/Lx is around $2500 - It only needs 7 watts per channel - it can take 150 watts per channel. It uses high quality drivers from Foster Tonnegan and Vifa and is 15 ply no void Russian birch - the best birch available. The ferrite tweeter is the best of the available grades of ferrite. The fit and finish is as good as speakers get and it has the rare distinction of being a very easy to drive sealed cabinet design. It has bass that reaches into the low 40hz range.

    You get to choose between 20 finishes matte or high gloss and ALL of the RAL colours.

    If you pay $2500 now in 2019 and you wait until 2029 you will sell the speakers for $2500 or more.

    Being objective and disregarding sound quality preferences or that you just don't like me - please show me a production speaker brand selling a new and is a 2 way stand mount that offers the above package. I'd add that it's nice to have a speaker in the corner so you have a lot more living room space.

    From Spendor I see that for 2,500 British pounds that on price this rough compares to the K/Lx.

    Right off the bat - it says it needs 25 watts min and wow you get a whole two colour options. What a bargoon.
     
  4. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    I respond to BS and make corrections. Then more BS and more corrections. I recommend dozens of other products. And as a teacher by day I am use to trying to educate a variety of people. This includes a lot of people with special needs wherein I have to repeat things in a different way 10-20 times.

    One can look back at the thread and plainly see exactly nowhere did I say AN was the answer or only answer. I have heard an awful lot of speakers - been down the wrong paths and when people who have had a few systems keep spinning their tires I figure it's not a bad time to try something off the beaten path.

    Given the picture of the room by the OP - a near wall close to room boundry speaker looked to me to make more sense than all the recommendations where speakers needed 3 feet or more. So be it.
     
  5. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    It's not the range and bespoke nature of product. AN have standard lines they have produced for years but they prevent their dealers advertising the prices on line. Of course if you ring up the dealer and ask I can't believe they won't quote a price but this is just arrogance on the part of PQ. My view is that AN is very musical but it is very coloured (maybe in a good way). If you like incisive and neutral you won't judge any of it value for money.

    Materially most of the products represent poor value (in real world terms) and the benefits of expensive discontinued components and silver wiring are dubious in that they sound different but not necessarily absolutely better. They are in the position of having a full order book so they don't have to pander to normal commercial conventions or the less financially endowed audiophile. There are some value for money models however, most notably the pick up arms especially when SME have done an EAR by doubling their prices over a couple of years.

    Back to the topic. I wouldn't suggest AN speakers outside an AN system and it might be difficult to get a dem with alternative equipment. Unless you need corner placement I think there are quite a few options for 'full range' out there. You will need a castle to accommodate truly full range speakers!
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
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  6. enginedr

    enginedr Its all good

    Location:
    New York City
    If the OP would like to audition a pair of Audio Note K speakers in a small room he is in luck . Ben @ HEAR in Brooklyn NY has a pair in his room with a Pass Labs XA25 Amp
    You Can call Ben @ 718-377-8010 to set up a audition . I have heard this system and yes it is very good It shows what is possible in such a small space
     
  7. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Where to start:

    There are three AN dealers who post somewhat regularly in the Strictly for Audio Note thread - If you pm them they will quote you a price. I don't get why people are up in arms on. Sorry but go to Shindo's website. See any prices? No. Their US importer is Tone Imports - do you see any prices listed? No. Here is proof Tone Imports And that applies to ALL their other brands: Line Magnetic, Leben, Auditorium 23, EMT, Sugden etc

    The only products that list prices are the ones that sell through Music Direct or Best Buy. Which is generally entry level audio or mainstream products. Where Audio is largely sold the same way coffee machines and toasters are sold.

    Value for money, neutral and incisive - well guess what NOTHING in audio is neutral - in this entire industry. So once you get past that notion we move on to the other points.

    I'm not a Recording and Mastering Engineer like Steve Hoffman but since he has two pairs of AN Es I would suggest that they do enough of a job on soundstages and incite and other audiophile approved traits. I mean he seems to have worked with ATC and other supposedly "ruler accurate loudspeakers" over the decades.

    The problem you have with your notion of value for money it is a subjective thing. You have to agree on the notion of what value is.

    Value as it pertains to initial price versus materials and labour etc is another matter. I mean Peter is designing stuff that is just way the hell beyond what anyone else in the entire industry is doing. WAY WAY beyond the frankly mediocrity that is buy a transformer from a bin buy some caps from parts R us and stick your label on the front and then claim you are a high end dealer.

    Watch this segment at 10 minutes and hell the reason there aren't prices is because half the time I think Peter has no idea - he makes stuff because HE likes it. Then they figure it out later. He makes stuff because he loves making stuff - the guy is mad scientist. They are selling stuff that isn't even listed on the website.

    This is not a Rotel where there are marketing departments, a big sales staff, website designers etc. They aren't outsourcing everything to China to maximize the profit.

    Personally, at the high dollar ranges I want something that has value and where I get the sense of prestige - luxury for a luxury price. the Patek Philippe - I want the old school "quality" of craftsmanship. Not some Chinese assembly line - yes It's good price but what is it. meh.

    At 18:30 minutes he calls out the forumers who blast his prices and 25 minutes will downright piss you off. This is a totally different company than everyone else. For Peter at this point this is a fun thing he does - he wants to make a bunch of stuff - the people will pay.



    Anyway this is way off topic - good luck OP - I still think an AN K/Lx would be a solid bet to upgrade both your speakers and will work right up against a wall virtually touching it. I just bought a pair myself which replaced my KEF LS-50.

    If you wish to know what speakers I like - but rarely get a chance to recommend due to size, room requirements, power requirements, availaibilty or price this is a short list of a bunch of speakers I like and some I have awarded best sound of show (yes above Audio Note speakers that were at those very same shows) Here is a link to the show illustrating that I obviously only like one brand of speakers 2012 CAS Coverage, Part X

    Here is a list of speakers that I would love to be able recommend to all these forums but perhaps you will see the problems:
    Various models within

    Pure Audio Project
    Volti Speakers
    Acapella
    SoundKaos
    Von Gaylord
    Teresonic (sadly out of business to the owner's death)
    Acoustic Zen Crescendo
    Spatial Audio
    Rosso Fiorentino
    Trenner and Freidl
    Ryan Audio Speakers
    Margules Speakers
    MBL speakers
    YG Acoustics
    Perfect 8 Technologies
    Studio Electric
    Sonist
    TAD
    KingSound

    That is off the top of my head. But while I like a bunch of stuff you can see the problem, The stuff I like tends to come with one sort of headache - it is either internet only, very few dealers even compared to Audio Note which isn't exactly on every corner. Acapella and the like are massive and expensive. And then on top of that you need an amp of a kabillion watts to drive some of them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  8. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    The difference between you and I is that I don't attempt to sell someone on the Spendor sound in nearly every speaker thread in which I participate. The repeated diatribe for why ANs are superior to nearly everything else gets old, and it's simply BS.

    If I were to try to purchase a near-mint pair of SP-100s or 1/2Es, I'd have to pay significantly more than original MSRP. So no, AN is not unique in having (some) models with good resale value.

    Here's a pair of AN/Ks selling for less than 1/2 their original price:
    Audio Note UK AN-K/Spe - high gloss burl

    Sealed-cabinet designs are not efficient for a given size unless horn-loaded. PQ can spin it anyway he likes, but AN doesn't get a free pass when it comes to the laws of physics.

    I have experience with a few Vifa drivers they're wholly inferior to the current Spendor drivers. And what does the cabinet material matter if it adds unwanted coloration to the sound as was my experience with ANs. AN designs their cabinets to behave like the body of an acoustic instrument with the intent of audible resonance. Companies like Spendor, Harbeth, Graham and Stirling try to direct the resonances away from the midband in order to reduce the audibility. There's nothing wrong with ANs approach if one prefers that type of sound but it's not at all accurate to the source, just as my Heresys are not at all accurate, they're very colored (and no, I'm not claiming they sound the same or as good as AN speakers). It makes for an interesting listen, especially with woodwinds and such but can make the electionic music and voices sound weird, which was my experience with the AN/Es.

    I've driven my Spendors to loud levels off of 15 watts and they can play fairly well against walls as they're front-ported. Any speaker can play louder with room gain which is the only way AN speakers come anywhere close to their claimed sensitivity.
     
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  9. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    These threads would not go on if people actually took the time to carefully read what I actually say because of dumb statements like the following ...

    No it is not selling at half the original price because the price he says is original is NOT the original price - it is the CURRENT resale price. Currently the AN K/SPe speaker is $4580. But the AN K/SPe back in 2003 was $1700 or so and could be purchased for $1500. His AN K/Spe is definitely not a current series model as can be seen from the cabinetry which isn't a single piece. So what he has done is post the current price - then offered it up for half price - and the current shopper thinks he is getting a steal while the original owner gets most if not what he paid for the speaker.

    I do not know why the above is such a difficult concept - for people who keep arguing with me - maybe if you bothered to read it I would not be on here repeating it 50 times. And it's not like the AN K is a particularly popular model of the line-up either and yet it still holds value.

    There is this thing called the real world - and it in if you want to know if something is efficient or sensitive you put things to the test. An 8 watt Meishu or 10 watt OTO SE and you connect it up to the AN K and you see what happens. And there is this speaker you may have heard of - it is called the LS-3/5a. One of the most efficient speakers in the world - it can be run off of 5 watts - it is 82dB sensitive so there is a limit to its volume capability - but it is absolutely efficient. it is also a sealed box design. And for the LS-3/5a owners - they all know this - now take that tiny little sealed box and instead use an 8 inch woofer in a much larger cabinet and achieving 90dB instead of 82dB and at the expense of some of that efficiency and it's very easy to attain those numbers.

    Actually that's not the case at all. AN's cabinet is designed to release energy as fast as possible and not have it linger in the box. AN speakers are some of the least boxy sounding speakers available due to being highly efficient they mirror more the best horns. The best Horns I like as much or more than the AN E but they are too expensive and impractical - and because people on forums are not asking for $70,000 speaker recommendation I can't tell you about the ones I like. Lossy cabinet speakers somewhat like the DeVore 0/96 and Harbeths coupled with being wide baffle share a sonic palette. I like all three loudspeakers as a result. I prefer the AN E but mainly because it is 1/3 the price of the other two and I don't see the other two as being any better. If they were all exactly the same price things would be different.

    Perhaps you should read the June 2001 issue of Hi-Fi Choice and see how the speaker did in the blind level matched auditioned. And check out how they measured - the AN J was also not in a corner as their room has none. Incidentally it beat all other British standmounts in the test so badly that they pulled the speaker out and put it up against British floorstanders - and it beat all of them as well. I am not surprised that Hi-Fi Choice used the AN E speaker as their reference - and bought a second pair a decade later.

    The tuned port of both the AN J and E is 29hz so they offer plenty of bass without corners - they just get a helluva big gain with them.

    I am sorry but there is no way AN makes voices sound weird. I say it a lot but people sell their Spendors and B&Ws for the likes of Audio Note and it wasn't to get Julie London or Eva Cassidy to sound weird.

    Yes the Spendors are not that low sensitive so I would not be surprised that 15 watts could get them pretty loud. A speaker rated 87dB is actually quite respectable. In a reasonable room - if you are not a total bass head and the speaker doesn't dip below 4 ohms much - 15 watts is probably plenty. It sort of depends on the quality of the amp too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  10. enginedr

    enginedr Its all good

    Location:
    New York City
    I think the OP needs to listen to those AN -K s to settle this . It his question
     
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  11. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I will listen to whatever the AN room has at the NY Audio Show in November.
     
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  12. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Richard, all things considered, you are starting to sound somewhat like an ambassador of the AN cult, take no offense. I'm fine with it, but this thread has transformed from "recommend a full range speaker" into "AN against the rest of the world".

    I promise to listen to the AN room closely, and will report back if I like it (or not). But can we call a truce here, finally?
     
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  13. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
  14. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    He's sounded like that for years. He thinks he must repeat himself because we don't understand his arguments, the truth is we've heard it all before and don't care.

    He must be PQ's favorite fanboy, a free market rep.
     
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  15. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Yes, they have an general explanation of their design, they don't however provide a complete unique description for each of their speakers that someone can simply click on next to their product listing, like the sample that I provided above.

    Not a lot of proper AN dealers in the US are they?

    We are all aware that.

    You don't necessarily have to order online, but it would be nice if you could get product information that is complete and within the comprehension of a reasonable individual online.

    See previous quote.

    Most of the higher end audio equipment suppliers are smaller shops that basically will provide you with any type of finish that you want on your speakers, such as Zu AUdio.

    You can do a simple capacitor upgrade with Zu Audio.

    Likewise, American companies, like Decware give you options and their pricing, directly on their websites. Not all that complicated.

    [​IMG]

    And they provide explanations, like:

    Signal Capacitors: We use cryo treated beeswax caps as the standard cap in the TORII JR which is all a person needs to experience a boutique cap in a boutique amplifier! The sound is fantastic. Since the release of the amp, our cap supplier has also developed an alternate cap using copper foil that many people like so we offer this as our Type II beeswax cap and consider it an upgrade of the already killer stock caps in the amp. Same goes for VCAP's which are also considered an upgrade. Between the two upgrade caps the beeswax are a bit more organic sounding while the VCAP's will develop slightly more resolution over time. The stocks caps are also organic sounding but the most forgiving of the three choices. Capacitors can be changed at any point in the amplifier's life.

    Yes, I can go to my local ford dealer and view actual paint swatches and tough samples and see different interior colors.

    But they also list them online so that people can get an idea of options that thy will have for a particular vehicle.
     
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  16. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    If ANs are the least boxy sounding speakers then why do they compress the hell out of music that has high dynamic range, for instance Mahler's first symphony or Tchaikovsky's 4th? Even simpler solo piano music sounds squashed, like a loudness button has been pressed. Everything sounds squashed and on a flat plane and the dynamics are quite blunted. This is not even going into the disjointed sounding crossover.

    Lets be honest, these are another form of audiophile style speakers for people seeking a certain sound, not speakers for the music lover. They are the other extreme of the Stereophile speaker favorites like B&W going in the polar opposite direction, yet at the end of the day ANs only sound good with audiophile style music, ie a gal and her guitar. There is a reason they demo these speakers on that type of drab music at hifi shows.
     
  17. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Since I don't feel that you are beholding to any company and as you say, you have gained a great deal of knowledge and experience in audio over the past few years, I would be very interested to hearing your unbiased opinions not only on AN speakers, but against other speakers that you audition at the N.Y. audio show.
     
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  18. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    You can easily build movable walls and corners to demonstrate your products.

    If you are a manufacture whose products are designed to be used in corners and you choose not to do this and the results are less than stellar, then whose fault is it?

    Commercial K-Horns from years past have self contained walls and are designed to be positioned anywhere and do not require corners.

    Current versions of K-Horns are available that also do not require corner placement.

    [​IMG]

    "The iconic Klipschorn is the original, three-way, fully horn-loaded loudspeaker that laid the foundation for the Klipsch brand. In its latest rendition, this historic speaker boasts an all-new neodymium tweeter, premium wire management system, and fully-enclosed design for flexible placement."
     
  19. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    In the United States, you can neither fix prices nor can you prevent a dealer from advertising them with a price tag either in a dealer's showroom or a photo of that same piece of audio gear complete with a price tag online.

    Since retiring, I have my audio gear stored in a 10' x 20' storage facility. With the exception of a single sofa, most of the storage space is taken up by speakers that are stacked as high as I can stack them.

    I have both modern and vintage gear, including speakers and amplifiers, tube and solid state, home audio and commercial gear. I have no idea whatsoever how any of it measures, nor could I care less. The only think that I do care about, is how it sounds to me. Colored or accurate are completely meaningless terms to me.

    I think that that is a curiously odd statement to make. I prefer to think that I can connect any of my speakers to any of my amplifier's and find suitable combinations.

    I don't think that I would ever buy any speaker that had to be matched with a particular amplifier(s) that their company makes, in order to achieve good sound quality reproduction.

    Perhaps not a castle, but a good sized listening room certainly helps.

    Stacked speakers on the right are 1960's era vintage Wharfedale's, which were built in their U.S. assembly plant.

    With the addition of horn super-tweeters and a commercial horn loaded sub, I imagine that the combination yields very close to that of a full range speaker. Don't really know for sure, but they work for me.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Shindo is a prime example of that mystique mumbo jumbo, that they have some special knowledge and talend that others in the world simply do not possess and they pricing exemplifies that.

    This statement does not come even close to being accurate.

    This is something I have always maintained. Noting that people are determined not to get "past it".

    I can not for the life of me, understand how someone who sings the praises of AN, would own a pair of LS-50's?

    Somehow, that does not come as a surprise to me.
     
  21. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Since shows of all sorts are held all over the country and all over the world, it is not uncommon for manufacturer's to jointly put on shows with a dealer that is local to the show area.

    Most higher end trade shows are not open to the general public, I have been to those.

    Others will have an industry day, usual before the main show opens so that dealers can deal directly with those other professionals who are in attendance at the show, before the general public are let in.

    What ever the case, what they were originally meant for doesn't really apply here does it?

    It is what purpose they are serving now that matters.

    Further, does it matter if a manufacture poorly demonstrates their gear to prospective dealers or the general public.

    If I am in the trade and I have a poor demonstration experience, am I likely to want to become a dealer for that or those products?

    If getting your own speakers to sound attractive enough that someone auditioning them would want to purchase them, is beyond their ability at the fairly ordinary and similar rooms that audio gear is demonstrated at during a audio show, then that manufacture should call it a day.

    "My speakers don't sound very good today, I'm absolutely sure that the room must be the blame."

    Appears that Warren Jarrett might just be smarter than the average audio show bear. :righton:
     
  22. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Yes it's a big problem IMO to demonstrate them properly - You often find the smaller ones seem to sound better but that's likely because they are better suited to the average room. Ribbons like Magnepan generally have better bass extension for the same size - and at lower prices. Still the KingSound Prince electrostatic was not too expensive and sounded quite excellent. Although I think a lot of dynamic speakers are a lot better these days so the panel advantage isn't perhaps what it was - but of course a lot of folks like a visually appealing product and a conversation point when guests come over. A panel is definitely such a talking point.

    With set-up some of these panels are not pair matched very well. Reviewer Ken Kessler noted that the Quad 988s were off by +/- 5.9dB. Meaning that any given frequency the left speaker could be way off the right speaker. 6dB is twice the level. So when positioning these speakers you might have to have the right speaker 3 feet closer to you if at 1khz it is -5.9dB. But of course what if it is +3dB louder and 300hz. Uggh - you would need a good DSP/balance control to get these things to work. Mind you Ken liked the speakers but it's one of those things where you have to be prepared to do the work or you could be very disappointed. The one thing I like about the better panels is their unique presentation. Nothing quite sounds the same and if you buy into the panel sound - little else will do.
     
  23. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    No problem - I admit it's easy to get me going :)

    I note that I am only responding to other posters. I do not recommend AN as any absolute. I like them - that is an opinion - and for anyone who has attended university when you state an opinion you try to back it up with reasons to support your position. I mean that's really all you have when you are writing about a subjective response to something. In my upcoming review of the AN E/SPx Alnico speakers I try to make the case that some other speakers do things better - and on this board I have noted that the AN E strives for a sort of balanced sound so a lot of reviews often note that the AN E sounds "right" but a balanced speaker doesn't necessarily make for an "exciting" speaker in the sense that other speakers may very well excel in say Dynamic Ease or treble expansiveness. A very good Acapella horn for instance when cymbals are struck have a presention in a big stunning live sensation that the AN E doesn't do that. In other words other speakers I would rank a 10/10 for certain aspects where the AN E would get an 8/10.

    Each audiophile will weight aspects differently. So I may value Timbre and Tonality as 3 times more important than imaging. You may value imaging as 3 times more important than Tonality - maybe you prefer a leaner presentation. So I choose balance over something that has three stand out traits but where I feel they have three larger weaknesses. However you may prefer a speaker with those 3 strengths and you can easily live with the three weaknesses.

    As you discovered you need two totally different speakers to "cover" the things you want.

    I remember when my favorite standmount speaker was the B&W 805 and then the Reference 3a MM DeCapo - the latter uses an 8 inch woofer and had tremendous sound stage depth. What was also cool was that you could walk up to the speakers and that stage didn't fall apart. The vocals were deep in the stage and you would sit and be quite impressed. Recording after recording you would lean in to hear that female vocal or male vocal and the speakers had a good amount of bass as well - and it was reasonably easy to drive. The B&W 805 was flatter a bit dynamically constrained and the integration with the metal tweeter was middling in comparison. The Reference 3a no doubt measured worse but sounded a lot better.

    Then the dealer put on the AN K and man that this was boring. The depth wasn't there - the K's in the corners - meh. But after a few tracks as my ear adjusted I noticed that piano sounded a lot better - the sound was more of a wall - but I could make voices out far more clearly. Over a larger number of recordings (which takes more time than an audio show allows) some vocals were deeper in the mix some were out front some were flat. The speaker was giving me three locations of depth not just "always deep." No the K never went as deep as the Reference 3a but then the Reference 3a was presenting everything the same - it was stamping on it's own signature onto every recording. The K differentiated those albums. Is this objectively better - to me it is. But having said that - if someone likes that Reference 3a sound - it's really tough to argue against it - big enveloping rich sound with soundstage depth is damn fine - I just ultimately felt it was less interesting and would be so over time. But I didn't get all that from a 30 minute audition.
     
  24. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    My cogent arguments on audio forums got the attention of some editors who wanted me to become a reviewer. So the endless peanut gallery attacks on me and what I like didn't hurt me too much.
     
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  25. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    That is true - you'd have to take it up with them. But since they don't sell their products online - and they don't advertise - this is a company that is still based in the world of the B&M experience. In other words you walk into a shop and you hear them. THEN if you like them you can ask about the various lines and they'll go over it with you. If they were an online seller then yes their site is lacking detailed information. They are interested in getting people to listen first because that is the entire point of audio - not looking at cool boxes and reading 10 paragraphs about their use of unobtanium and how the chassis was machined. That's all nice and fine but listen first. I am not saying this is the right way to go in 2019 but since the orders are outstripping their ability to make the stuff and since they've opened a few more plants and quadrupled the size of their workforce over the last decade - would you want to screw with what's working?

    Rolls Royce back when they were really Rolls Royce didn't advertise and didn't post prices - the idea was - "if you want the best, you'll find us" and it's a sort of non advertising advertising. Granted Rolls went under in the end but the name was purchased because the name had and probably still has a large amount of prestige. And let's face it - when you are selling to people who are buying multiple million dollar amplifiers from AN - those customers want prestige along with their great sounding amplifier.

    There are 20 dealers in the US and Canada. When I first auditioned Audio Note back in 2001 or so they had 4.
    Let's be realistic here though - what could you realistically expect? AN has a lot of big strikes against it. They are very slow to get products to dealers and customers. They don't advertise. There is no marketing department - you are not walking into a dealer and getting a bright shiny expensive B&W or Krell catalog you can take home with you to fantasize about. At best you get a piece of photocopied paper - incidentally that is also the manual. Dealers have to get people to actually listen to Audio Note - they are not the 90% of customers who walk in and listen for 3 minutes and say - I saw the 805 get class A - here is my credit card. This is what Terry at Soundhounds who sold audio for 40 years noted. That's why he sold B&W. It is presold before anyone walks int he door. With Audio Note - it is work. First they have to get the guy into the chair. Then they have to say "sorry sir this doesn't come with a remote" and "sorry sir this is only 8 watts per channel" And sorry sir - the speakers are that shape because that is what good sound looks like" and "sorry sir they don't make a surround sound speaker package" and "sorry sir there is no headphone output" and "sorry sir there is only one input on the DAC so you can only hook up one digital source" and sorry sir but yes that 8 watt amp is $8,500 while yes you can get that Bryston that has 20 years of warranty instead of 2 for $2800. I am amazed they have 20 dealers. LOL Dealers are in business usually to sell as many boxes as humanly possible and do as little work in the process. McIntosh - sexy blue meters - been around what 6 decades - built well - American made, look like tanks, have tons of power. And no work required - yeah man 150 watts - everyone knows the name - yes we take visa.

    Peter noted they do 5% of their business in the USA. I understand that - patience isn't a big thing in the west and looks are extremely important.

    The information on parts is on Audio Note's website but again they would rather have you audition things yourself before just taking their word for it and clicking yes to cap upgrade to have it shipped to you.

    Here is an example of a description of caps. You have to work around a little - you will see an amp it will say it has a certain cap - you have to go to components look up caps - they describe the differences https://www.audionote.co.uk/electrolytic-capacitors

    You can if you like get a full description of every part that goes into whatever amp or speaker you are looking at - it's all on their site if a little difficult to navigate. Nothing is perfect. Being a good audio designer and manufacturer doesn't mean you will make the best website.

    A description of all parts is here including a full price list of all parts https://www.audionote.co.uk/components
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
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