Sennheiser Headphone Advice

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Ryan Bedlack, Nov 23, 2021.

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  1. Jazzabana

    Jazzabana Qobuz all the way

    Location:
    Istanbul
    There you go some samples

     
    dee likes this.
  2. ca1ore

    ca1ore Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stamford, CT, USA
    I’ve had the 600 since they came out (20 years?). Have variously tried ‘upgrades’ over time, but none stuck. I did recently try the 820. It was better, just not $$$$ better. I did have to replace the 600 stock cord after about 10 years because one of the connectors developed an intermittent short.
     
  3. james

    james Summon The Queen

    Location:
    Annapolis
    what amplification have you landed on?

    someone upthread (I think) recommended these cables:

    https://impactaudiocables.com/shop/...placement-cable/v/CST-NFN-SRS-SNN-NTR-GLD-4FT

    I could use a much shorter cable for my work rig and am thinking of pulling the trigger on those.

    I’ve also had my 600’s for about 20 years and I’ve fallen back in love with them a bit recently. Qobuz out of my MacBook Pro > USB > Marantz HD-DAC1 > 600’s is an enjoyable chain. I do have to replace the pads here and there as I use them for 8 hours a day.
     
  4. richie60

    richie60 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Wales, UK
    Why Sennheiser? There are many better headphones around these days. Personally, I’ve owned the HD650 and HD600 used with various amps like the BH Crack with Speedball, Burson Soloist etc. To me, they are and will forever remain sub-par!

    I don’t care what anyone says, they are veiled and are bettered by other headphones.
     
  5. ca1ore

    ca1ore Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stamford, CT, USA
    I used the X-Can v1 (the round one) for years. Recently replaced with the Meridian Prime.
     
    james likes this.
  6. holden4th

    holden4th Forum Resident

    I've still got the NE5532 and NE5534 op amps installed, despite the fact that I have the V6 Vivids sitting in the now 'dead' Burson PLAY. I have a vacation coming up so might do the swap over then. My original PLAY had the standard op amps and the step up to the Vivids was a considerable improvement.

    I might have a look at the Dark Voice 336se, as tube amps have always intrigued me.

    Ham, thanks for your comments in your most recent post, it's got me thinking about whether or not I look at Cavalli as well as Dark Voice. A pity the CTH on Drop is not available at the moment.
     
  7. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    I don't find the 650/6xx harsh or fatiguing with brass or any high end sounds - in fact I find them pleasantly slightly on the "dark" side.

    I also feel the sonic differences among the 600 series are often overstated (and measurements generally bear this out). And to my knowledge the 6xx is the 650, just with a different color scheme. There also might be a difference in the material used, or the stiffness of the padding, in the ear cups - and ear cups can make a huge difference in the sound. In fact, if you get two of the identical model of headphone, they can sound markedly different from each other if the pads on one have gotten more use/wear than the other.

    With all that in mind, my recommendation would be run, do not walk, to drop.com, get a pair of the 6xx's for $179, and then spend the $220-$300 you saved compared to the 600 or 650 on new music. :)

    No disrespect to others' opinions; this is just mine FWIW.
     
  8. ls35a

    ls35a Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, Idaho
    When you're ready to upgrade from these $200 - $500 Sennheiser's the Focal Drop Elex is stunning. And frequently on sale for $550 - a ridiculous bargain.
     
    rodentdog likes this.
  9. Spy Car

    Spy Car Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Agreed. The currently on sale Drop 6xx are the way to go. Act immediately.

    The only thing the Sennheisers do require is a powerful headphone amp to bring out their best. I have a Schiit Asgard 3 w/ an internal DAC card, which I love and also a DarkVoice 336se OTL tube amp (as mentioned by @Benzion above) for when I'm in a tube mood.

    Bill
     
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  10. Pancat

    Pancat Senior Member

    Location:
    Merry England
    The 600 is excellent with vinyl.
     
    willied, Ryan Bedlack, GyroSE and 2 others like this.
  11. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Uhm, yeah, OK, thanks... :whistle:
     
  12. holden4th

    holden4th Forum Resident

    I've spent most of the morning researching possibilities because I suddenly realised that if I get something that will significantly improve the HD6XXs they must do the same for my beloved HD580s. A couple of YT reviews brought up some issues with the Dark Voice that might mean I won't be happy with its sound. In that vein, if I get the Asgard 3 (which a number of people have said work extremely well with the HD650s) I might be on the right path. You've got the internal DAC card but I can save some money and get a Modi 3 with it. What's the difference between the Asgard and the DarkVoice?
     
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  13. Spy Car

    Spy Car Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    If I could have one only, I'd get the Asgard 3. It sounds great, has plenty of power to drive the Sennheisers, well built, reliable, American made, issue free, etc.

    The DarkVoice is an inexpensive introduction to the OTL tube amp sound. I stumbled on an old guy that has NOS tubes for a great price and I indulged myself. I have great affection for the DarkVoice. I probably use it 10-15% of the time, when I want the signature profile it delivers. It isn't that far off from the Asgard 3, don't want to mislead, but tubes have their own thing.

    I have zero hesitation recommending the Schiit amp with the 6xx. A perfect pairing IMO and the price combo with the 6XXs is very high value.

    Schiit also has a Modius external DAC that is in the same form factor as the Asgard 3.


    Bill
     
  14. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    I do like the various Cavalli amps. But that's because I really like planar magnetic headphones. I've chosen to optimize my headphone setups around planar headphones rather than the Senn headphones. The Cavalli amps I have do really well with planars. There is a reason why many of the planar headphone companies have used Cavalli amps as one of their reference amps.

    I don't consider the Cavalli amps to be the best amp choice if you're optimizing for the Senn HD600 or HD650. There are better amps for the Senns for the same cost or lower cost. The Cavalli amps are still good with the Senns, but I know there is better. If I was given $1K, $2K or $3K to buy and amp specifically for the HD650 it would not be any of the Cavalli amps I already own. But if I was optimizing for planars I'd get the Cavalli amps I already have.

    I have the Cavalli Tube Hybrid (aka CTH). It's a neat amp for the price and for the particular design of what Cavalli wanted to achieve with it. It has its purpose. And does well with the HD650. But isn't an amp that has earned permanent space in my gear rack. I like my other amps better. But they also cost more.

    A currently available Cavalli amp I'm liking now is the Monoprice Cavalli Liquid Gold X. It's a solid state amp and balanced. MSRP is $1000, but goes on sale for $800 or $700 or even less on some of the third-party sites Monoprice also lists some of their products on. It's a fantastically neat amp that does what it does better than any other $1K amp. The amp definitely has its sonic flavor. It's a smooth sound that is non-fatiguing and super pleasant to listen to. It is very transparent in the sense that you can hear through the amp and into the DAC and headphones better than my expensive Cavalli amps. The sound layers and has the micro-imaging and 3D imaging details I love to hear. The layering and imaging allows sounds to move around in 3D space. With the HD650 it presents a bubble of sound around my head. There are no blobs of sound inside your head with this amp. A neat amp for people after a SS amp with smooth non-fatiguing sound qualities and great SS imaging. I've been listening to the Liquid Gold X today with the HD650. To refamiliarize myself with the HD650. I've been ignoring my Senns for too many months.
     
    Bill Larson likes this.
  15. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    The Focal headphones are good. And they're easy to drive. They'll sound good on more amps than the Senn HD600/HD650 will. People who find the HD600/HD650 to be veiled or lacking transparency will likely find the Focal headphones to be a better option.

    The big issue with the HD600/HD650 Senn headphones is that they require a good headphone amp with particular characteristics and sonic style. If you don't already have an amp like that then recommending a Senn headphone becomes a $500+ suggestion because the person would also need to buy a suitable headphone amp. Suddenly that Senn headphone isn't such a bargain. Most people with a good headphone amp already have a headphone amp that will drive the Focals well.

    The people here with the Burson Play series amps that cause the Senns to sound veiled should try the Focal Elex. $550 for a good headphone and you'll get to keep using the Burson amp you already own.

    The Focal Elex is currently on Drop for $549 with shipping in March 2022.

    Here's a recent review of the Drop Focal Elex from a reviewer whose ears I trust: Focal Elex Review - GoldenSound

    I don't own any Focal headphones because I'm into planar headphones and don't want to be spending $550 on a dynamic headphone. Cause that's $550 that I'd rather put towards a $2000 planar.
     
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  16. Adagio

    Adagio Forum Resident

    I love my 650's but they really started sounding amazing when plugged into a good headphone amp.

    I use a Music Fidelity X-CAN V3 with Mullard NOS Tubes and have never wanted to upgrade since
     
  17. recstar24

    recstar24 Senior Member

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    agreed. I had gotten out of the headphone game for a while and the focal elex was my re introduction back into loving headphones again. I “upgraded” to the sennheiser hd800s and while the senns perform “technically” better the focal elex remain used in my stable and are simply a fun, easy can to listen to while being very technically sound as well.
     
  18. bober99

    bober99 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    The 650 will sound good with a Marantz PM 8004 amp ?
     
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  19. Bill Larson

    Bill Larson Forum Resident

    The pairing of the CTH (with DAC) and the 6xx was a big thing about 2 years ago. I bought both at the same time and couldn’t be happier. They sound like a very nice, very large set of speakers, and they bring a realism to percussion/drums that I hadn’t heard before, even through my HD595.

    The phones took forever to break in, though— they sounded boxy and congested for the better part of a week, and I played FM radio broadcasts and interstation hiss 24/7 through them for DAYS before they opened up. I wonder if this is what some people interpret as “veil.”
     
  20. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! :wave:I accidentally dented the right ear cup of my 6XX's in a silly fall last year. They have continued to play beautifully despite the dent but it has since bothered me that it occurred. This sale price (plus a $20.00 off savings coupon that was offered via Capital One) sealed the deal for me as a birthday and Christmas present.

    I'll see if I can sell my dented yet well-broken-in pair to someone.
     
    tmtomh likes this.
  21. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    @tmtomh There also might be a difference in the material used, or the stiffness of the padding, in the ear cups - and ear cups can make a huge difference in the sound.

    INDEED! After about 6 months of use, I read about earcups and sound so I upgraded to the Fenestrated Sheepskin cups offered by Drop. There was a very distinct improvement in sound and I recommend them highly.
     
    tmtomh likes this.
  22. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    The issue with the Sennheiser earpads is that the earpads squish over time. And that affects the sound. The sound character of the HD600 series is different with brand new pads vs. old squished pads. The squished earpads will cause the headphones to lose some midrange compared to new earpads.

    Measurements of fresh vs. worn pads here: The Pad Wear Update (Ranking List Update) – In-Ear Fidelity

    The sonic differences between worn and fresh pads are audible.

    The consequence is that when comparing a HD650 with the HD6xx you need to make sure the pads are in the exact same condition. If the HD650 is a few years old and has worn pads and the HD6xx is brand new the two headphones are going to sound noticeably different even though the reality is that they're both very similar. The difference being the condition of the pads.

    Same when comparing the HD600 with the HD650. Need to compare the two headphones using pads in the exact same condition.

    A lot of the comments around about how the HD600 compares to the HD650 or how the HD650 compares to the HD6xx are not correct because in many of those comparisons are done with earpads that are worn and not the same on both headphones.

    This also means that people with fat heads hear a different HD600/HD650 than people wish small skinny heads. The people with large fat heads always will have squished earpads, even when the earpads are brand new. The people with smaller skinny heads will get to enjoy the sound of the unsquished earpads. This could be a reason why some people describe the HD650 as lacking treble or sounding a bit dull. Those people may have fat heads.

    The fact that the earpad condition makes such a noticeable change in sound quality for the HD650 and HD600 is not ideal. A better headphone design lessen that or avoid it.
     
    tmtomh likes this.
  23. John Buchanan

    John Buchanan I'm just a headphone kind of fellow. Stax Sigma

    Aaahhh hahaha. Have a look at the Sennheiser HE-1 - AUS$ 85000.
     
  24. brucej4

    brucej4 Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Coast, USA
    I am concerned that a lot of the posts here, while interesting, are doing a great disservice to the OP.

    He is not looking for state-of-the-art. He has a relatively simple system and wants better headphones.

    I am seeing misleading personal opinions about the 600, 650, and 6xx. Veiled, poor imaging, require very specific amplification, etc. These are not universal truths - they're opinions, mostly from people who are spending a LOT more money than the OP. Not everyone wants or needs to play at that level.

    I used the 600 for several years on the headphone jack of my Arcam FMJ A19. They were not at all "veiled," they imaged just fine, and I could play them as loud as I wanted. Are they better with a Schiit headphone amp? Yes, but not night-and-day better.

    The OP is unlikely to be disappointed with the 6xx on his system. I doubt that he could do better at that price. There is no point in telling him that he needs to spend more. He doesn't. Maybe down the road.
     
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  25. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch the Face of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    Well... That's the price. I don't know anything about headphones for I just use it to set my recording. Besides the old school Telefunken I use an old Samson. Broke in half.
    Ill just buy one locally at guitar center. Nothing fancy...
     
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