Sennheiser vs Grado Headphones - Opinions Needed

The HeadRoom guys are pretty serious about their Headphones - I can't imagine why they'd put up something that's highly inaccurate. Should I email them and ask for clarification?

 

Ah - interesting stuff here - read up!

http://headphone.com/layout.php?topicID=121

 

Fearless Leader, maybe it has something to do with the way the HeadRoom guys test their headphones.

I have dealt with them for years. Believe me, they are serious about headphones. I trust them 100% behind everything they say.

Their test metodology involves a dummy head and microphones inside them. I think this takes into account the shape of the outer ear, so that may be the reason for all those peaks and valleys. They have said in the past it's the only way they can be fair to every headphone out there. Why? Because you can't do a nearfield test on a, say, Etymotic ER-4S or a Koss CanalPhone, both of which take into consideration the shape of theouter ear in their frequency response. Ergo, they need the dummy head.

I own the Etymotics, AKG-501's, Senn HD-580, 600, and Grado SR-125. To my ears, the AKG-501 is flat, lean and beautiful, while the 580's have a lot more bottom end and still mantain their accuracy. The 600's are still being broken in (with a Musical Fidelity X-Can V2, BTW).

Notice I didn't mention the Etymotics. That's because they are so accurate, so uncannily fast, so absurdly good, they absolutely OWN every single headphone I own... or loudspeaker system, for that matter. Etymotics are the pinnacle of high-end audio, IMHO.

 

How would they quantify that? They allready give their opinions on what they like and how the phones sound.

While there may be some issues with their methods, they are making an honest attempt at making meaningful comparisions between how these phones measure.

 

Never heard of these. Are they comfortable? How do they compare with other "in-ear" headphones for comfort?

I'm curious, but I generally hate "in-ear" headphones...I don't like the feeling of having something in my ear. But I admit I haven't really tried expensive ones, only cheap ones, and only for a few minutes.

 

Is that to get higher volume, or is there another reason?

 

Headroom is right.

You can't measure headphones by sticking a meter at the driver. Because all headphones are shaped differently, the drivers will be different distances from your ear canal, in different positions relative to your ear canal, and pointed in different directions relative to your ear canal.

On top of that, our heads aren't all shaped the same and the headphones won't fit exactly the same way.

And even canal phones will have their response curves colored by the remainder of the ear chamber to your eardrum...and this is also different for different people!

They are making their best effort, and their premises are correct.

Even if you play a flat response to a person, it will never be flat by the time it reaches the eardrum...even with speakers.

If you can accurately hear that it is flat or not, that's because your brain is compensating for the colorations of the environment and of your own head.

It's because the headphone amp built into a typical stereo, receiver, portable, or even pre-amp typically sucks. Of course, some suck a lot less than others.

 

Unfortunately, no charts on their site for the Ety's. Nor the Senn 650.

 

Graphs aside, I've been using Grado RS-1s for almost 8 years [recently with modded Senn pads--*much* more comfortable]--and have loved them. A few months ago I bought a pair of AKG K-1000s and after a rather bitter break-in period I seem to be reaching for them [instead of the Grados] with more and more frequency. I should say that as I live in an apartment, all *serious* listening [at volume] is done via headphones.

 

I purchased the HD580's a couple years back from Audioadvisor for 199 bucks. At the time I bought them they also included this pro logic surround sound amp that was nothing but a gimmick really. I could not tell any difference in the sound from regular stereo except that it added some fake echo that seemed to make it feel like surround . I ended up selling the Surround amp on Ebay for 50 bucks. I do like the 580's though .

I have never heard them with a headphone amp although I am sure they would sound much better with one. I do not listen to cans much at all though and couldn't justify spending on an amp. I have probably only used the 580's 10 times in the couple years that I have owned them.

I have read that were some problems with the cord on the 580's malfunctioning and having to be replaced . Don't know the specifics on this but have read several articles regarding it.

 

I'm more and more thinking of AKG's as good compromises between the comfort of Senns and the sound of Grados as I break in a pair, too.

 

I couldn't find them in their web site, but here's the link to their description:

http://www.headphone.com/layout.php?topicID=3&subTopicID=26&productID=0020100000

Believe me, those things are otherworldly. The fact that they seal you off your environment is spooky... you can't hear anything outside your head, except for the music. The best description I have for them is that they are a direct wire to your brain... you've never heard music the way those things make it sound. It's all music - nothing more.

A headphone amp is an ABSOLUTE NECESSITY for headphones such as the Sennheisers, BTW. Without a headphone amp, they sound clumsy, slow, and bloated. A *good* headphone amp is really needed for them to shine. I own two: a Total Airhead (SS, battery powered) and an X-CanV2. The Grados need the Total Airhead - the X-Can makes them sound too screechy for my taste. But the Total Airhead can't drive the Sennheisers - they really need the 1-Watt RMS power of the tube X-Cans to really shine.

BTW, the Etymotics need an even better power amp - they are so detailed and high-resolution, they bring out everything your sources are capable of producing. They are like electrostatic headphones (in their transparency), with the punch and dynamics of cone drivers.

 

The "Etymotic Insertion page" gave me pause!

BTW, this is the most civil discussion of phones I've ever seen - kudos to everyone!

 

A friend and I both had the same problem with the 580's malfunctioning, but it was because our cats had chewed through the cord. Luckily parts are easy to get from the Sennheiser web page. I think a new cord cost about $15.

 

My cat did the same thing, and he almost always leaves cords alone! I think there's something on the coating that they like (or don't like). Monofilament fishing line also drives them crazy.

 

Is hooking up the cans directly to your preamp out (via a 1/4 inch stereo female to RCA male adapter) not recommended?

 

I've been reading this page with great interest, as I also needed new headphones. I decided to pick up a set of Sennheiser HD570's at CC today, as we have no Grado dealer here. So far, I really like what I hear, the bass is way better than my old Sony cans (more natural, not boomy), and the mids and highs are very nice as well. Of course, since the phones aren't burnt in yet, this is only a first impression, yet they should improve with more listening.

 

One more thing to consider is whether you want an open or sealed design. The Sennheisser 600s are an open design that doesn't feel hot even in summer, and will allow sounds like phone rings to be heard, assuming you're listening at safe levels. However, listening in noisy envisonments such as planes, etc., may require closed or in-the-ear 'phones.

 

Well, according to Headwize.com, the answer is "yes".

According to my own experience, the answer is "no". First of all, the preamp output needs to be really beefy in order to deliver the power required to drive headphones (some of them, the K1000 for example, work a lot better if you use your power amp output - yikes). I have never been able to exchange freely a preamp with a headphone amp. Of course, YMMV.

I can't imagine a preamp driving my AKG-501s, for example. If the Sennheisers require a headphone amp, in my experience the 501's require a BEEFY headphone amp. The X-Cans V2 are barely up to the task... and that's with 1 watt of power.

Another reason I can think about why preamps wouldn't handle headphones as good as a headphone amp is the headphone's impedance. Grados, for example, have a 32 Ohm rating, while Sennheisers have a 300 Ohm rating. Considering an amplifier presents a much higher impedance... well, I dunno.

 

No, they don't really tell you how they will sound to any particular person. Looking at the graphs, one would assume those phones were a boomy, trebly mess, but they don't sound like that. You always have to audition them, and you have to know your existing gear as a reference, because nothing is "accurate" in headphone listening. When you "know" what the gear does, then you can make decisions using it.

I have been using my Sennheiser HD580 and my new Musical Fidelity X-CAN V3 for listening lately and it does tell me a lot about differences in recordings and playback equipment. But I also have several Grado models which also sound great, and the Grado amp. But the sound is much different from the former setup. So I have not a clue what is really accurate here...I just enjoy listening to music thru them.

I trust them about as far as I could spit. Not since their "leader" went on Head-Fi about a year ago and literally insulted some of their members. He was a total a*****e. I would never deal with Headroom if they were the last source on the planet.

 

It took me close to two weeks to learn how to properly get a "seal" with Etymotics. It's now quite easy for me to get it - but the first times, I was pretty sure the headphones were broken, or something. They sound pretty ugly if the correct seal is not attained.

 

Beagle, do you remember me from Head-Fi and Headwize? I do remember you. It's nice to see you here.

Did Tyll go out of his mind??? Todd was always a really nice guy to me. I can't believe he did that... no wonder people are turning to Jan Meyer more and more...

BTW, I just played around with my Sennheiser HD-600's. To my ear, they are a DEFINITE improvement over the 580's. Bass is a lot more precise now... the 580's have more of a rumble to them, while the 600's are a lot more accurate.

I should have bought the 650's