Separates vs. Integrated (RR2160 or Used Parsound HINTO) - Budget Edition

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Fish17, May 16, 2020.

  1. bever70

    bever70 It's all about the soundstage

    Location:
    Belgium
    One sub that blends well with Maggies is Rel, they are definitely fast enough, in fact they are made to be matched. But difinitely look into the cat-issue when getting planar magnetics ! Mine survived for nearly 30 years, having 3 different cats in that period. Only one of them was tempted to try and scratch them when she was just a kitten. The other 2 just knew they were not allowed to come within 5ft. of my speakers :D.
     
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  2. Fish17

    Fish17 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    At least he doesn’t have any claws, not sure what pressing on the fabric would do to them but definitely a concern.
     
  3. Fish17

    Fish17 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Sounds like you have experience with Maggies, what model(s) have you owned? I'm looking at the LRS and possibly the 0.7 hoping to audition them later this week.
     
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  4. bever70

    bever70 It's all about the soundstage

    Location:
    Belgium
    Sorry, no Maggies but I do have planar magnetics ;).
     
  5. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, CA, USA
    Wondering, I couldn't find anything on the Fausto Linea (hybrid planar magnetic) ... is it similar to say the .7? seems like it's possible it is. The .7 (IF it's like other Maggies) must have a flat 4 ohm impedance, with a rise in the 'center' (others seem to go to 16 ohms or more at 1kHz or something ...). Seems encouraging that you use the A23 with these, and being a former drummer, things must work pretty darn well for you to be happy! Maybe some day I'll try some Maggies and an A23 or something!
     
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  6. bever70

    bever70 It's all about the soundstage

    Location:
    Belgium
    Not a lot to be found on my planar magnetic speakers, they are a Belgian design and went bust in the early 90's. The only thing I know about them technically is that they are a 6ohm load and have a sensitivity of 88db. They do need a sub though but now that I have had that problem sorted for a few years with a Rel, I guess they'll be with me for another 30 years. I have heard Maggies on audioshows before and they present a similar experience.
     
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  7. Fish17

    Fish17 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I just got off the phone with my local Maggie dealer 12-16 weeks for the LRS! They are backordered 650-100 units.

    Fortunately he has some on order so I will at least be able to hear them at some point :(

    For now I'll just use these speaker stands and the KEF Q150s.
     
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  8. okc_craft

    okc_craft Just Another Budgetphile

    Location:
    Okc
    Think of it as gaining perspective. I have several pair of vintage speakers with varied pedigree. They each bring something different, some so so, some bliss, but they all bring me an understanding of what I value in my system.
     
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  9. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, CA, USA
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
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  10. Fish17

    Fish17 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Thanks Rick! I read that first one and have watched some videos comparing the LRS to the 0.7.
     
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  11. Front Row

    Front Row Finding pleasure when annoying those with OCD.

    Location:
    Chicago IL
    I have the Outlaw RR2160. I have it hooked up to Revels and the amp provides a lot of sound. The bass is never a problem and I have to turn in down. The receiver is for audiophiles and thus should be pleasing. The DAC and Phono are equivalent to my Cambridge set up in another room. For the price, the RR2160 is an excellent value.
     
  12. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, CA, USA
    Hey Fish17, saw something about Freya + being back ordered longer than expected? Bummer.
     
  13. Fish17

    Fish17 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I got mine today :) I've been listening since noon. Great early father's day present!

    I pre-ordered mine prior to the last shipment which was 6/17. Looks like they are backordered for another month now.

    This is my first audiophile setup and I'm loving it.

    Still no word on the LRS (they are back ordered 11-12 weeks last I heard), but for now I'm happy with my KEFs Q150s.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
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  14. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, CA, USA
    FANTASTIC !!! Happy Father’s Day for sure! That’s actually good IMHO as you’ll get the system dialed in with the KEFs and enjoy them for a while. Then with the LRSs you’ll hear the differences and hopefully improvements. Then ... Analysis Plus Oval 12 speaker cables? :cool: :D
     
  15. Fish17

    Fish17 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I agree hanging with the KEFs for awhile is a good idea. Just called my local maggie dealer and he is expecting a shipment Monday so hopefully I check out the LRS and 0.7. When I ran my speaker cable I left enough slack assuming I get maggies. They like to away from the wall (7 feet ideally).

    I went with quality cables from the start. I'm super anal when it comes to cable organization (wire ties) so I'd rather only do it once. BJC LC-1 for my sub and record player (highly shielded), BJC Ten (Gauge) speaker cable, Mogami W2549 balance cable, and Mogami W2497 for RCA connections to my Blue Node.
     
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  16. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, CA, USA
    We look forward to reading your impressions. Should be an excellent sounding system with the KEFs, and another level with Maggies of either type.

    Caution: it may take a while (10s of hours playing time) for things to settle in etc.. So don’t be disappointed if things don’t blow you away immediately. My Titus speakers were like no bass at first, then 10 hours or less in, the bass came on board. These were new, I don’t know how Maggies may sound right out of the box (no pun intended!). Maggie May ... song; out of the box (Maggies are boxless!). Sorry. :D
     
  17. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA
    For what it's worth, I started the thread about the shutdown with the RR2160, but I haven't had the problem once since early February, so I'm beginning to think it may not have been the amp at fault. Still unclear, but I'm enjoying mine very much and, for the thread starter, the built in phono stage in the rr2160 is very nice. I'm very happy with it.
     
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  18. head_unit

    head_unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    To skip past that whole other thread that was posted, here are some raw observations from my experiences as a loudspeaker engineer:
    - Efficiency is power in/power out, just a straight percentage.
    - Sensitivity is voltage in, decibels out. That *should* relate to efficiency via the impedance.
    - BUT speakers are not resistors at all (which is why amp power ratings are of limited use, and you should focus on 4 ohm or even 2 ohm ratings if available, even if your speakers are 8 ohms).
    - And manufacturers and their factories each measure the frequency response curve on different physical setups with different equipment at different distances with different correction factors
    - And then from that data each defines the sensitivity a different way
    - AND then for marketing reasons, often add decibels with some bullsh!t justification about "two speakers in a room" and/or "room gain" [Klipsch, Zu, looking at YOU. Read through Stereophile tests, often as not the speakers do not meet their sensitivity spec.
    - For some speaker types like planars, it becomes harder to define because the front and back are radiating out of phase and bouncing the sound all around the room.

    Yes, 86 dB is not very efficient. Back in the day speakers were more like 90-92 dB or so for 1 watt at 1 meter. However, two things have driven that down:
    1) More and more cone damping for flatter/smoother response adds more mass which reduces efficiency
    2) The tendency towards smaller enclosures inevitably gives up efficiency to try and not lose the bass (search "Hofmann's Iron Law"-no not Steve ha ha)
     
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  19. DanPDX

    DanPDX Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    @Fish17 Great convo. Just read the whole thread because I am in a very similar situation. I'm upgrading my entry level setup (Harman/Kardon HK3700 integrated amp + a pair of Pioneers SP-FS52) and I'm considering the Freya+ paired with either the Emotiva A-300 or the Parasound A23 (also looked at the 2125 V2). I'm very curious about the Tube sounding of the Freya and wondering if it's worth it for my case. I'm also wondering if I should get better speakers first, or just upgrade my amp/preamp setup. Would love to hear your thoughts about the Freya and A23 pairing.
     
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  20. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, CA, USA
    Of course I'm just an observer (and haven't heard any of this) but the Freya + and A23 seem like a match made in heaven. A23 = solid state excellent amp that can drive about anything to more than reasonable levels with very low distortion etc.. Has balanced inputs. Freya + = tube based preamp with several modes, can run as passive device (I think) and at least 2 stages of tube buffering or amplification. Seems like a top notch punching way above its weight class preamp.

    The Pioneers are similar, seem to be stone cold bargains in the speaker world, but of course can be bettered with careful choices. I'd say go for the Freya + and A23 combo (hoping Fish17 is as thrilled with the sonics as I hope he would be). Listen to that for a while, even months (as Fish17 is doing with his KEF speakers). Then look into upgrading speakers, you can now really hear what the improvements are (with the better pre+amp).

    I'd even go so far as to then recommend upgrading speaker cables ... I use/recommend Analysis Plus Oval 9 but the Oval 12 is likely excellent too. Of course Cardas and others and I haven't heard any other $400 cables, but the AP Oval 9s made a huge difference in my system. As they should have ... I went from $250 list AQ Slate biwire cables (that I paid $125 for closeout) to the Oval 9s, no contest.
     
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  21. bever70

    bever70 It's all about the soundstage

    Location:
    Belgium
    I have an A23 and Saga+ and it's a perfect match to my ears, very dynamic (also use Mogami cables), with a wide and deep soundstage, and after 2 years of constant upgrading I'm at a point where I feel like I don't need to spend more money, it's that satisfying (well I might get a Freya+ sometime, just because... :D). The Freya+ would be very similar to the saga+ I presume.
     
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  22. DanPDX

    DanPDX Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Thanks, @Rick58. I am leaning toward this route (upgrade pre+amp, then speakers). I'll report back. Also, good looking out on the cables suggestions. Another thing to keep in mind. Definitely an upgrade over my "Amazon Basics" Speaker Wires I'm currently using :sigh:
     
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  23. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, CA, USA
    Hey man it's all good. Good to experiment with cables (unless you're convinced they don't make a difference - but have to be CAREFUL discussing this as the moderators don't tolerate arguments in this realm!).

    I use Mogami balanced cables in my main audio setup (beween preamp and ERGO processor) and think they sound great (or good enough I don't feel the need to spend $$$$ on those cables).
     
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  24. Fish17

    Fish17 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I have no regrets with the Freya+ & A23, I’ve been running in tube mode exclusively, I mean why wouldn’t you lol.

    What sold me on the freya+ and A23 was the balanced inputs and tubes. I liked the idea of ability to change the sound color in the future with tube rolling. I also went with the A23 because I plan on getting some Maggie’s next and parasound amps are good for high current, power hungry speakers like Maggie’s.

    I wanted something that was a great value and based on my research the A23 and Freya+ were great value.

    There’s a great review of the Freya+ by New Record Day on YouTube that I recommend checking out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
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  25. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, CA, USA
    Hey no pressure but wondering if you'd be willing to post another pic of your setup/room. Just curious about how things ended up and especially how it all sounds (maybe getting nice wide/deep soundstages, and more detail and musicality, hopefully). It'll be exciting to get the Maggies in there and hear the differences, and the Freya + and A23 should let you hear them. But of course give the Maggies a few hours/days/weeks to settle in, I have no idea how they 'do' when new compared to having 50 hours' playing time on them.

    Very interested, maybe there's some Maggies in my future! I really am thinking about getting an A21 one of these days ... IF I can ever spend cash on audio again ... I hope so. I have Monitor Audio Silver 8s, have been reading about Wharfedale Lintons (for some slightly 'old school' but still satisfying modern sound), and then there's Maggies and other types of speakers that Parasound amps can drive without issues.

    ANYWAY ... great cheers! :cheers: :pineapple: :righton: on the new gear and sonics! :wave:
     

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