Sex Pistols - Spunk Original Pressing - Question...???

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by sathvyre, Jun 19, 2012.

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  1. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    Hello,

    after a long search, I got a copy of the original Spunk LP.
    I am not sure if it is the real one, but the seller told me it is...
    Here are some details, maybe there is anybody out there who could bring light into the dark, cause I paid a lot of money for it.

    First the labels look like scanned and reprinted and are not completely centered on the record.

    On the runout grooves, two (!!!) numbers are engraved on each side:

    LYN 4372-14 BLA-169-A MAX
    LYN 4373-III BLA-169-B MAX

    I don't have any information about the real first pressing, so maybe anybody could help me to identify which version I own ???

    Besides this, the center hole of the record looks a bit strange (maybe it was too small and anybody made it bigger) and so the entire record is really off-centered...

    Please help me, if you know what I bought here...so I could return the record, if it is a counterfeit of the initial pressing.

    Thank you very much !!!
     
  2. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    I have to add that all three writings in the runout groove are handwritten and placed on three different places.
    The cover of the record is a plain white hardsleeve. Anybody knows ???
    Thank you for information !!!
     
  3. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    I got a response from a collector - should be a real original pressing :)
     
  4. Fat Bob

    Fat Bob Forum Resident

    These are notoriously hard to tell from later pressings because they are all bootlegs. But originals have a white card die cut sleeve with a plain white non die cut inner.
    The labels feature the Robert Crumb pistol drawing in pink with purple (or possible just darker pink) writing. There is a convincing 'all rights of the manufacturer...' copyright notice. On my copy the labels are sharp.
    The run out groove on side one is so tiny that you can hardly read the matrix numbers. On side two the run out is a more normal size. The matrix numbers are as in your post, but on my copy there is a fourth illegible mark in the run out on side one.
    I hope this helps.
     
  5. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    Thank you for information. I think I bought a counterfeit pressing with the exact matrix, but I discovered some strange facts when I listened with headphones on high quality equipment:

    After the end of some tracks (especially on side a), you can recognize an additional noise which comes definitely from another vinyl source. it is audible for one second and then cuts and you can hear the real vinyl noise from the record you play.
    Another proof for a possible counterfeit pressing, straight ripped from vinyl, could be the excessive distortion on the last tracks of side a and side b...as I use to listen to my records with expensive needles, no strong distortion is every audible on regular records...
    I also recognized a big volume error on the first track "Seventeen", which doesn't appear on the digital rip I received (as mp3) from a fan...it starts very quiet and becomes louder and louder (to its regular volume) around the 0:40 mark...
    I am confused...the matrix in the dead wax is exactly the one it should be on the initial pressing, but I am sure the version I bought is a 100% exact counterfeit pressing, made later by another bootlegger...
    Very hard to find out some details, cause nobody really knows how often this record was bootlegged and counterfeited...I am sure this one is not an original, but a from-vinyl-to-vinyl counterfeit pressing. I am disappointed...
    The runout groove on side a of my record has a size of around 1 centimeter, on side b it is ca. 2 centimeter....
     
  6. seventeen

    seventeen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris, France
    I will check my original copy and get back to you. I have one of the initials, with the french printed sleeve (the one with all the dots). If I remember correctly, a french shop owner bought thousands of copies, and had their own sleeve printed, about a year after the original appeared.
     
  7. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    Thank you - I am looking forward to read some details about your original copy. Maybe you could listen to it one more time and check if the distortion on the last tracks of side a and b are very high (as on my copy). Would be also interesting to know if your record has the same additional vinyl noise after each side a track (very audible on the end of "Seventeen" for example).
    The seller (where I got my LP from) confirmed again that is is a 100% original pressing, but I am not sure...
     
  8. Fat Bob

    Fat Bob Forum Resident

    I just listened to my copy and there is a marked deterioration in sound for Anarchy in the UK at the end of side one. This may be because this was recorded for EMI rather than as a demo and the source is not the original master. Side two sounds fine all the way to the end.

    These copies on Popsike look the same as my copy which I have always assumed to be original (I've had it for more than 20 years and it is identical to a copy a friend bought in 1977).

    http://www.popsike.com/THE-SEX-PISTOLSSPUNKLPNEAR-MINT/200715492695.html

    http://www.popsike.com/SEX-PISTOLSSPUNK-ORIGINAL-BLANK-LABELBLACK-VINYL/300481378716.html
     
  9. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    Thank you very much.
    This is exactly the one I have here.
    I also own the original NO FUTURE UK pressing (with the SPUNK labels and the "for promotion only" print) and it sounds superior, compared to the SPUNK LP...maybe made by the same bootlegger, adding more tracks and using a better pressing plant...???
    Also the distortion on ANARCHY is not audible on NO FUTURE UK and the overall sound is much better than on SPUNK !!!
    The only sad thing is that my NO FUTURE UK copy is pressed totally off-center on Side A - otherwise it would be the best option to have all three sessions on one album...and the original vinyl sounds much better than any CD release (CASTLE, RECEIVER etc.) !!!
    But I can't stop thinking about the fact of the additional vinyl noise on our SPUNK records...and of course the strong distortion on ANARCHY...to me it sounds like a counterfeit pressing, exactly copied, but poorly ripped from vinyl and pressed again...
    If you listen to the 2006 SPUNK remaster (Castle), there is no strong distortion...maybe they used another pressing or compiled the tracks from SPUNK and NO FUTURE UK ???
    And, believe me, there is no way to remove such strong distortion in a remastering process...
    Very strange...
    Does anybody know if all NO FUTURE UK records with the SPUNK labels and the "for promotion only" print are pressed off-center on Side A ??? I want another copy !!!
     
  10. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    Last week I received another copy of the original SPUNK LP with the BLA and LYN matrixes and compared with the other version I ordered from USA.
    Very interesting fact is that the USA version is a 99,9% perfect counterfeit pressing, including all three matrixes at the right places, the same labels and comes also in white hard cover.
    But there are some differences:

    The counterfeit pressing sounds more distorted than the original one, especially the last tracks on each side. The labels of the counterfeit are not 100% sharp as the labels on the original pressing, but you must look very close to see the differences...
    The additional vinyl noise and hiss after some tracks on side a are not included on the original pressing...

    Very strange...cause you can't identify the original pressing from the counterfeit by watching the record only...

    Now I celebrate my original one and returned the counterfeit pressing to the seller...
     
  11. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Forum Resident

    I am somewhat (now!) searching for the best sounding version of this release too.

    I have this one the way:

    http://www.herestheartwork.co.uk/viewAlbum.php?id=1668

    One question I've had: all (?) the CD versions up to now, have run too slow. Where did that come in? When the lp was originally transferred to CD, was that turntable running too slow? Was the tape machine at fault?

    Anyway, maybe this is a new transfer, or maybe someone took the current existing CD mastering and speed corrected it, I don't know. I'm just curious how it sounds, because so far, I like the U.S. version of the No Future UK? CD by Trojan Records: There is No Future so far the best out of the CD's I've heard. Tonality and dynamics.
     
  12. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    The speed problem was a fault of the master tape used for the original first press vinyl.
    The LP was counterfeited and bootlegged countless times and nobody ever fixed that, not even CASTLE / SANCTUARY in 2006 for the official release.
    The NO FUTURE U.K. LP / CD suffers from the same problem, cause for that release the same, but entire master cassette was used (plus "Pretty Vacant" Session 1, "Anarchy" Session 1 and "No Fun" Session 2).
    The version on the Japan bootleg double CD is a speed-corrected rip from the CASTLE-CD, nothing special.
    So if you want to get the best possible quality, you have to go for the very first and original pressing of the SPUNK-LP. It sounds much better than the 2006 CASTLE version, cause the official remaster lacks some treble and has strong compression in the deep frequency area...
    I did my own rips of the original SPUNK and NO FUTURE U.K. vinyls and they sound excellent, compared to all previous and available versions.
    If you want the full Goodman set, you have to choose the original NO FUTURE U.K. vinyl (not the Receiver Records version, this is just a re-EQ-ed needledrop from the original vinyl with the BLA-169 deadwax). The initial pressing has the SPUNK/BLANK labels with the tracklist of the SPUNK-LP on it (12 tracks in total), but on the record 15 tracks are included. The pressing quality of NO FUTURE U.K. is slightly better than the original SPUNK-LP.
    I hope that helps.
     
  13. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Forum Resident

    I didn't know that. I assumed the vinyl was correct, and somehow in between there and CD, the speed problem was introduced.

    I just got the '89 Receiver Records CD for No Future UK? And that is my favorite on CD right now.

    I have vinyl capability, but for kicks, I want to nail down the best CD 1st, then decide if I want to try and get one of the original boots. :)
     
  14. sbardc

    sbardc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe


    Try this one. It's from a tape source, not vinyl;

    http://www.discogs.com/Sex-Pistols-Early-Daze-The-Studio-Collection/release/530986

    It's mostly the same tracks as Spunk, without the same speed issue.
     
  15. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    Of course, the sound on EARLY DAZE or MINI-ALBUM and THE SWINDLE CONTINUES is much better and the songs have no speed problem, but for the SPUNK Side A tracks, the only version including the original mixes is the original SPUNK LP and the NO FUTURE U.K. LP. The mixes on EARLY DAZE / MINI-ALBUM are slightly different, compared to the SPUNK mixes. So the original mixes appear on all releases with too slow speed.
     
  16. Dave Decadent

    Dave Decadent Forum Resident

    Location:
    Birmingham UK
    Have I missed something here; how is it possible to conclude that an original Spunk LP is at the wrong speed without reference to the original recordings?
     
  17. sbardc

    sbardc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Personally, I'd judge it most obviously on Lydon's voice.

    Take "Seventeen" for example. Compare that song on the Spunk CD (which matches the vinyl) against the same on the aforementioned Early Daze CD (from a tape source, presumably that of producer Dave Goodman).

    Straight away you'll notice the latter sounds normal in comparison to all the other tracks, and the former sounds, well, too slow.
     
  18. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    If you have good ears and / or are into making music as an instrumentalist (as me), it is very easy to find out the key tone. Just use the tracks on NMTB and compare them with the SPUNK LP recordings.
    I am sure that the guys tuned the guitars before they recorded anything, so you have to fix the speed from the SPUNK tracks until you get the key tone as on NMTB - very easy. I hope it is not too complicated to understand ;)

    And, of course, EARLY DAYS or THE MINI-ALBUM are the same recordings, but with a slightly different mix. Both CDs run nearly at the correct speed.

    You can also use NO FUTURE U.K., where NO FUN is included - compare it with the versions on FLOGGING A DEAD HORSE or KISS THIS and you will here that they run too slow...so the rest of the cassette tape used for both records (SPUNK and NO FUTURE U.K.) was recorded with wrong speed.
     
  19. seventeen

    seventeen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris, France
    You mean transfered at the wrong speed.
     
  20. Dave Decadent

    Dave Decadent Forum Resident

    Location:
    Birmingham UK
    Aha; I got ya. Thanx for that. Next time I play it i'll adjust the pitch control on my deck and see how that sounds.
     
  21. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    @Seventeen: Either RECORDED on a tapedeck which runs at the wrong speed or TRANSFERED from a tape deck which runs too slow... ;)
     
  22. peteneatneat

    peteneatneat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Liverpool UK
    I REALLY hope they sort out this problem for the forthcoming deluxe edition. It has bugged me for years. The tracks sound so much BETTER at the correct speed.
     
  23. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    Absolutely !!! I did my own rip of the original SPUNK LP and fixed the speed problem - great sound !!!
     
  24. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Forum Resident

    I got a later version of the Mini Album, with the missing Pretty Vacant as a bonus track (I thought I was killing two birds with one stone), but the mastering sucked. No dynamics.

    So now I have the original Mini Album CD on the way.
     
  25. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    I have the Mini-Album on Japan-CD and the original CHAOS RECORDS pressing on vinyl (both minus Pretty Vacant, which is available on the "We've Cum For Your Children" CD / LP in fantastic quality).
     
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