SH Spotlight SH Forum members: Are your speakers in correct phase?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Oct 25, 2004.

  1. Expectant One

    Expectant One Well-Known Member

    Haha. Well, happiness is a good thing, I'll fix the direction later today.
     
  2. jorgeluiz

    jorgeluiz New Member

    don't imagine, think first.

    example for ilustration: 100Hz.(100 times each second)
    Half are positives semi cicles, the other half are negatives semi cicles.
    as positives semi cicles go to the front and negatives semi cicles go to back of the speaker when in right phase, you never will know what semi cicle start first but you can be sure that 50 times the speaker go to the front and 50 times go to the back.
    now to complicate a little more:
    what frequence have the "P" and how you know what semi cicle came first? (positive or negative? )
     
  3. Bradock

    Bradock Forum Resident

    I have an early 80's Carver C 4000 Preamp with Sonic Holography (interaural cross talk cancellation). In order for it to work, your main speakers must be in phase - and you must be sitting equadistant from each speaker. When you engage it on good stereo music (ex: the Beatles remasters), the instruments and voices literally sound like they have popped out of the speakers and are now in front of, behind, and to the sides of the speakers. Depending on the content of the music, you can sometimes even hear instruments or voices coming from behind your sitting position. This process also lets you hear more of the original hall ambience of where the recording took place without artificially adding any of its own. This is all from just your two main speakers. When you play mono music, the image collapses to just a point in between the two speakers. This is why in most cases I prefer stereo mixes, because I feel like I'm at a live concert.
     
  4. fmuakkassa

    fmuakkassa Dr. M

    Location:
    Ohio
    I just reliazed this thread is 5 years old but I went and checked my cables.

    They are all in phase. My ARC LS-26 pre-amp states that the output is non-inverting. Does that mean that the absolute phase is not inverted and I just connect red to red and black to black?
     
  5. jorgeluiz

    jorgeluiz New Member

    fmuakkassa,
    very hard way to be sure and without mistakes:
    waveform(440Hz for example -6dB) 16b/44.1k where the positives cicles are squareds and the negatives cicles are sines.(or any waveform where semi cicles are differents). you can do this waveform easily in audition, sound forge or other wave editior.
    burn in cdrw and play.
    check each step with osciloscope: the output of the player, the output of the pre(if any), equalizer and all ending in the output of the amplifier.
    you'll have to read the waveform as was done, can't be inverted in any step.

    about the polarity of the speakers the best is the battery as was posted here before: plug the wires from the speakers in one battery 1.5~3.0v(+&-), no matter the color of the wires. the speaker will move to the front when the positive of the battery is plugged in the positive of the speaker, if don't, the wires are reverted.
    don't worry to do this tests, nothing will explode or damage, only care to don't use high volume in the amplifier when testing.

    cheers!
     
  6. BigAlsBro

    BigAlsBro Active Member

    Yow... anybody that flips through this blog doesnt know this ? I remember when I was a wee lad & didnt call shotgun, trying to explain to the owner/driver how to fade/balance so he had the sweet spot while driving, after fiddling back & forth, front & back they still couldnt tell any difference even after I looked to see if the phaseing was correct. Some people just cant ear music, I guess...
     
  7. jorgeluiz

    jorgeluiz New Member

    it's a damm good thread,
    everyday have news users and nobody knows everything. :shrug:

    i guess that have a typo here:
     
  8. Baba Oh Really

    Baba Oh Really Certified "Forum Favorite"

    Location:
    mid west, USA
    I just checked, and my speakers are in phrase!

    It wouldn't matter if you had an older stereo with RCA input jack thingys instead of individual wires...right??
     
  9. No. Electrons have no idea about up, down. left, or right.
     
  10. Doug Sclar

    Doug Sclar Forum Legend

    Location:
    The OC

    Electrons follow the path of least resistance.
     
  11. Yes, from the amplifier to the speakers. If there was more resistance at the speaker than the amplifier, then no sound would come out of the speakers.
     
  12. Dream Operator

    Dream Operator New Member

    Location:
    Lakewood, CO
    Always. I cannot stand to be between two speakers that are out of phase with each other. Like nails on a chalkboard!

    Tim
     
  13. Platterpus

    Platterpus Forum Resident

    Location:
    MPLS
    Yeah, mine are in correct phase. I have been this way since I bought my first stereo. I like things to be hooked up properly.
     
  14. It kind of reminds me of Duophonic (fake stereo), which I can't stand listening to either.
     
  15. jorgeluiz

    jorgeluiz New Member

    you're double right, no scientific prooves and electrons have no idea.

    you're right too, electrons are "smarts".(or lazy, always chosing short paths)

    well, to hear is a question of power in this case.
    if the amplifier have 1WRMS and the speaker 1 billion Ohms, we don't will hear anything but the electrons will stay moving. the speaker don't answer because don't get the right power to move it but...the electrons(jumping in lacunas) will be passing across the "coil" to create magnetic field.

    now the question: what really go to speakers? lacunas or electrons?
     
  16. Parlourphone

    Parlourphone New Member

    Location:
    London, UK
    Of course fun can be had listening to some music in 'Out Of Phase Stereo' to cancel vocals out and hear the backing only, or vice versa, or turn twin-track (e.g. Beatles) 'stereo' recordings into a 'Mid/Side' version by twisting the L- and R+ wires together at the amp end (so only the L+ and R- wires are actually connected to the amp).

    In the days before PCs and wave editors, that was the only way to do it - I discovered this trick in 1989 when I was 15, and opened my eyes to the way stereo mixes were done - old and new.
     
  17. McGruder

    McGruder Eternal Musicphile

    Location:
    Maryland
    I have to listen for awhile before I'm sure something is out of phase. I use the battery check to determine the polarity of speakers (my LR are both reversed!).

    I also have a Maxell CD that performs phase checks via in phase and out of phase signals (in addition to other nice things like a Left/Right channel signals, frequency response sweep), which helps me ensure proper phasing between LR speakers and subwoofer.

    These are critical adjustments to any setup, quite eye opening the first time I learned about this. The thought of all those years of my youth I likely spent listening out of phase/polarity :)
     
  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Bump as a reminder..
     
  19. rstamberg

    rstamberg Senior Member

    Location:
    Riverside, CT
    This is so important. Every time I mess with either of my systems I test out the speaker setup afterwards to make certain everything's copacetic.


    Rock Stamberg
     
  20. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    I can't stand out-of-phase speakers and am sensitive to the effect. I recall going into record stores in years past and while shopping, I'd come upon the supposed sweet spot for the stereo and instead got that "sucking out of the head" feeling that out-of-phase speakers will give you. And to this day, I'll go into shops and hear the dreaded effect. These people probably watch stretch-o-vision too!

    Harry
     
  21. Eight years and 17 pages later and still no conclusive scientific explanation/demonstration regarding the directional factor in connecting speaker wires. If there is any merit to this, surely it is an adjustment with the smallest detectable difference/improvement.

    Sent from my GT-N8010 using Tapatalk HD
     
  22. ponkine

    ponkine Forum Resident

    I've some questions

    Maybe some of you have the XLO Reference Recordings and Test CD. On some tracks there're balance test, in phase and out of phase tests. Well, the voice says to MOVE increasingly the speakers to enhance the effect. Is this true?

    I don't have a big room and I can't move my speakers too much. I do hear mono between my speakers, but when I hear the "in phase" track and the "out of phase" one I do not hear that much difference

    :shrug:
     
  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Are your speakers in a very small room? Are they close to side walls?
     
  24. ponkine

    ponkine Forum Resident

    My room isn't symmetrical. My right speaker is about 1 mt (...3 feet for my USA friends ;)) to the side wall and 30 cm from the back wall
    My left speaker is about 1,5 mt (5 feet) from the side wall and 30 cm (1 feet) from the back wall. The distance between the 2 is about 2 mt

    :wave:
     
  25. Jimi Bat

    Jimi Bat Forum Resident

    Location:
    tx usa
    i just checked my speakers due to this thread and they are in phase but the monster in monster cable is pointed to the speaker not the amp so i have to switch them around.how is this going to change the sound?thanks for bringing back this thread it has really helped give me info i was not aware of.
     

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