Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Turnaround, Aug 20, 2021.

  1. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    "WSS" isn't gonna bring in kids like the Disney remakes.

    Honestly, I find it tough to imagine how many people under 60 are gonna wanna see it. It really looks like a pretty literal remake, and it still takes place decades ago, so there seems to be no attempt to modernize it.

    The original "WSS" is indeed a classic, which is why it's so perplexing that Spielberg wanted to remake it. He seems like the kind of person who would recognize the original was already great so what can be gained by another version?

    All the movies you mention sold their tickets pre-pandemic. There's no reason to believe we'll be back at that level of theater attendance come December.

    Nothing has hit $200 million US since COVID. Perhaps audiences are more willing to return in 3 months, but I find it really hard to believe a remake of a 60-year-old musical passes a box office gross that MCU movies couldn't hit now!

    I stand by my sub-$100 million US prediction...
     
  2. JediJones

    JediJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I thought Shang-Chi was one of the worst Marvel Cinematic Movies. Whoever designed the action and effects did fine, but all of the material that was supposed to support that fell apart quite badly.

    Tony Leung's performance completely outshined Simu Liu's. Leung had depth and emotion while Liu was as bland as wooden as any would-be action hero I've ever seen. Hence, I was identifying with the villain and rooting for him throughout most of the movie, even while the movie is asking me to be scared of him and want to see him killed. They split up Shang-Chi's backstory in a flashback structure throughout the whole movie, to no benefit. There was every reason in the world to tell this whole story in a linear fashion. Think of Spider-Man, there's no benefit to putting the Uncle Ben story into a flashback. It just makes sense to start the movie out with it, so that you know where all the characters stand throughout the movie. We're asked to be interested in a character we know little about for far too long. And his big emotional scene fell so flat late in the movie due to his lackluster delivery, it was hard to stifle a laugh at how epically it missed the mark of generating any pathos at all.

    Remember in Ant-Man where Hank Pym drives Scott Lang through all kinds of hoops, breaking in and out of homes and jail and stuff, when all he really wants is to give him the suit? The whole first act of that movie could have been avoided if Hank Pym simply knocked on Scott's door and introduced himself. Well, same problem here. The entire first act of the movie could've been avoided if the guy driving all of it just showed up and told the other people what he eventually ends up telling them anyway. Also there was no justification to stage giant attacks for a goal that could've been achieved by a stealthy ninja in the middle of the night...and wouldn't this be a movie where stealthy ninjas should be easy to find?

    I hate a story that gives us a lot of fantastical things happening, and never explains the logic or limits of the fantasy. There are a lot of strange magical powers in this movie that just happen, and very little of it is explained or defined. How am I supposed to feel suspense when I don't know what the competing sides are really capable of doing? I don't remember if they tried to explain how the rings, or should we say bracelets work or not, but I ended up just seeing a weapon that extends like an electrified slinky and smashes things up real good. That's not a very interesting mystical object.

    Bad comedy is again the Achilles Heel in an MCU movie. Just like in Ragnarok and Captain Marvel, the humor here is brain-dead, lowest-common-denominator stuff that falls completely flat. The awkward Awkwafina brings back bad memories of Richard Pryor in Superman III. A lot of the time she's making fun of the story itself, and ruining our ability to appreciate the fantasy of it all. And someone goes on a rant ripping the "Mandarin" name, which is just a crass, snide, snobby insult to the comic book history of the character. There's only one character that offers any chuckles at all in the movie, and he has a much smaller part than Awkward-fina.

    I'm having a hard time seeing how it's good for Asian representation for a movie to triple-down on the Asian "tiger mom" stereotype, where character after character in this movie is some kind of authority figure trying to tell younger people to be more successful or live up to their parents' expectations better. It's certainly not an original concept, and not too interesting to see it repeated over and over again in this movie.

    Some other plot holes:
    *No one in the village had a plan to use the big dragon in the fight at the end? He's only "activated" by Shang-Chi falling in the water.
    *How do Shang-Chi and the dragon work together so effortlessly? He's able to jump on and ride it at all the right times effortlessly.
    *Why does the secret path through the forest require a modern, high-speed vehicle? How would anyone have made use of the path in the past when it closes at such rapid speed?
    *How does Shang-Chi know how to use the rings? Why do they turn color when he uses them? What exactly did Wenwu do wrong in the fight that led him to lose control of the rings? There is no understanding of how these, more accurately termed, bracelets function.
    *Wenwu assassinates a bunch of gang members and just leaves his kid standing right there in the room instead of doing anything to protect him. The kid is almost crushed by debris.
    *How does Wenwu command this army? Are they being paid or mystically controlled somehow? Maybe some of this was explained in the very opening flashback, but the writing there was pretty cornball, and it was hard to take it seriously.
    *And, yeah, it's utterly ridiculous and cornball when Wong gives Shang-Chi and Katy their "superhero cards." Especially Katy, who is nothing but a very green Hawkeye wannabe at this point. More logically, Wong should've asked for the rings so that they could protect them, and keep them out of the hands of someone who might steal them. How is Shang supposed to guard them? He has no resources to protect them while he's sleeping at night.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  3. soundboy

    soundboy Senior Member

    After Wednesday, based on the numbers at boxofficemojo.com, Shang-Chi's total domestic box office take is at $181,833,064 (vs. Black Widow's domestic office take of $183,433,868). Shang-Chi should overtake Black Widow as the #1 movie of the year (domestically) after Friday. While Shang-Chi is unlikely to reach $200 million after this upcoming weekend, it should be able to reach that milestone in about 10 days.

    That's my guess and I am standing by it.
     
    Oatsdad likes this.
  4. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe 3 months since last false death report!

    It's also still playing in any number of premium theaters - IMAX, Dolby Cinema - which increases the box office.
     
  5. Speedmaster

    Speedmaster If you believe, they put a man on the moon?

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    The influx of Chinese money in Hollywood is directly impacting the content. That’s called propaganda if I’m not mistaken.

    Or should I apologize for that statement as well?
     
  6. PH416156

    PH416156 Alea Iacta Est

    Location:
    Europe
    And regarding Hollywood movies screened in China, studios only keep approximately 25% of the revenue...
     
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  7. Deuce66

    Deuce66 Senior Member

    Movie makers want access to the Chinese market (pop. 1.445 Billion), in order to enter that market movies need to be approved by the CCP. Sometimes cuts/changes are needed for your movie to get screened in China, is it worth it just to get 25% of the box office receipts?? Depends on the movie I guess. I think in most cases the studio will make the changes required if any in exchange for that additional revenue.
     
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  8. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Yup. At my local IMAX, "Shang-Chi" still has the IMAX screen, though "Evan Hansen" took over the Dolby screen.

    Will "Hansen" outgross "SC" this weekend? "Hansen" looks like a massive bomb in the making!
     
  9. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US

    The Chinese wanted Quentin Tarantino to cut the Bruce Lee fight scene from "Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood" or they wouldn't show it... and he told them to stuff it. Go, QT.
     
  10. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe 3 months since last false death report!

    We saw it last night.

    It is terrible.
     
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  11. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Did you see the stage show?
     
  12. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    Short and sweet. Thanks, Chris.
     
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  13. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe 3 months since last false death report!

    No - I haven't seen any theatrical production since Avenue Q.

    But unlike that show, this one had really mediocre songs, the sort of stuff I refer to as "Sondheim, but without the talent." There was only one song that I remembered, and I think that was only really because it was featured in the trailer that I had seen several dozen times. But we saw it because I honestly love musicals, and really want to see one with memorable songs.
     
  14. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    I never saw "DEH" on stage and know little about it, honestly, beyond the absurdity that 98-year-old Ben Platt is supposed to pass for a teen in the movie. That's the kind of thing people might accept on stage but less so in a movie.

    Because I know so little about "DEH" in general, it's unclear to me what made it such a hit in the first place, especially if the songs are meh.

    At this point, though, the movie's getting such bad reviews that it's nearing "Cats" level of "must-see as a trainwreck"...
     
  15. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe 3 months since last false death report!

    Possibly it's just me, as this style of songwriting is all over musicals these days, and the last musical I really loved - Anna and the Apocalypse - was a colossal flop. But this was written by the same talentless hacks who wrote all the terrible songs in La La Land. And that won all sorts of awards!

    I know you don't believe West Side Story is going to succeed, but it does have the advantage of having truly great songs, and might remind people of what a musical is supposed to be like.
     
  16. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    I don't think the problem with "WSS" is the material - it's the "been there, done that" factor.

    From what I've seen, it doesn't look like Spielberg is doing anything new/fresh with the material. Maybe that impression is wrong, but it really looks like a pretty literal remake.

    So what's the point? Why remake a movie if it's gonna be pretty similar to the original?

    Anyway, I think "WSS" will simply struggle to find that ever-desired "youth market" that seemed to go to "La La Land" - or even the soccer moms who made "Greatest Showman" a hit.

    "WSS" feels like a remake no one asked for! :shrug:
     
  17. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe 3 months since last false death report!

    I gave Dear Evan Hansen its own thread, which is far more than the miserable thing deserves.

    Dear Evan Hansen movie
     
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  18. JediJones

    JediJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Because that's what a remake is. The question is, why remake a movie if you're going to change everything? Why not make a new movie in that case?

    The 2005 King Kong remake adhered closely to the original, but applied a modern visual look and acting styles. It also was able to insert scenes that were cut from the original movie. I believe this one is also said to be incorporating scenes from the play that didn't make it into the original movie. Any movie is about far more than the plot. It's about the style and execution. It seems apparent to me that West Side Story will have a much more modernized style applied to it than the original did. To think that the movie will come out looking and feeling like a 60-year-old movie is pretty silly. Obviously it's going to feel different and be a fresh interpretation of the material. It's hard to object to a remake of anything pre-1970 as filmmaking evolved radically in the 1970s. Acting got much more realistic and visuals got much more stylized.
     
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  19. soundboy

    soundboy Senior Member

    Looks like this has been achieved.

    Now Shang-Chi is almost certain to top the domestic box office take of “Bad Boys for Life” ($204M domestic total) and becoming the biggest film since 2019.
     
  20. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe 3 months since last false death report!

    The other part of Spielberg's remake is that it will employ actors of the actual ethnic groups being depicted, something of which people have become much more aware.

    I don't know if anyone watched the recent Rita Moreno documentary, but while she was justly proud of her body of work, she was constantly playing "Random Ethnic Woman" in dark makeup.

    This wonderful musical deserves to be presented to a new generation.
     
  21. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    A remake doesn't change everything. Obviously it keeps some common elements.

    But I don't see a point to making a fairly literal remake.

    The 2005 "King Kong" wasn't at all a "literal remake" - crud, it's twice as long! - and Jackson makes more than a few changes along the way.

    He didn't do a Gus Van Sant and simply shoot the same movie but with modern technology.

    And to be fair, I don't think Spielberg will "Psycho" '98 "WSS" either - I'm sure it'll differ from the 1961 film.

    Nonetheless, when I watch those trailers, the movie just seems awfully similar - like "if I didn't recognize the different actors, I might've thought it was the 1961 version" similar.

    A remake should have some reason to exist other than "the filmmaker felt like it".

    Heck, even if PJ had made the 2005 "Kong" a literal remake of the original, it still would've been interesting due to the improvements in visual effects.

    "WSS" doesn't enjoy any filmmaking advances/benefits that didn't exist in 1961.

    Just seems weird to remake a movie regarded as one of the best of all-time and simply do a version that looks an awful lot like the original...
     
  22. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    They couldn't watch the Wise version?

    Should every classic be remade so a "new generation" can see it? :confused:
     
  23. Speedmaster

    Speedmaster If you believe, they put a man on the moon?

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    That’s good, but this isn’t just about China. The DoD (Department of Defense) has been using Hollywood since WW2.
     
  24. soundboy

    soundboy Senior Member

    After this past weekend, "Shang-Chi"'s domestic box office stands at $206, 108,802. It should overtake Will Smith/Martin Lawrence's "Bad Boys For Life" (released January 15, 2020, domestic box office of $206, 305,244) by the end of today, making it the biggest movie domestically for 2020-2021....for now.
     
  25. Huckleberry

    Huckleberry Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Denver, Colorado
    My wife and I saw it a few weeks back, and I only fell asleep briefly, and sort of enjoyed it which was surprising as Disney/Marvel has kind of gotten a bit stale.

    Liked the locales and visuals, fun matinee for us.
     

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