Shoegaze vs Grunge

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by CupOfDreams, Nov 19, 2014.

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  1. CupOfDreams

    CupOfDreams Forum Resident Thread Starter

    In the late 80s both of these genres emerged. Nirvana, Mudhoney, Soundgarden, etc on the leading edge of Grunge. My Bloody Valentine, Slowdive and Ride on the Shoegaze forefront. The landmark albums of both genres were released in 1991 with Nirvana's "Nevermind" and My Bloody Valentine' s "Loveless". Grunge exploded in popularity while most of the Shoegaze bands disbanded or went in another musical direction.

    25 years later I hear more shoegaze influences than grunge influences. IMHO a lot of the Post-Rock bands are definitely shoegaze influenced. You also have the Nu Gaze bands. Grunge seems to have fallen out of favor after the barrage of 3rd rate Post-Grunge bands.

    While I listened to both back in the day I was a much bigger fan of the shoegazers and I think that music has held up better.

    Your thoughts.
     
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  2. BadJack

    BadJack doorman who always high-fives children of divorce

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I think Grunge's influence on modern pop culture is vastly greater. I'll leave it to others to determine whether that's a good or bad thing.

    However, I agree that Shoegaze has aged extremely well and the newer stuff I enjoy tends to show its influence.

    So, with me, it's Shoegaze and it's not even close but to answer the question of bigger influence, I do have to go with Grunge.
     
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  3. CupOfDreams

    CupOfDreams Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Good point. Shoegaze never gained mainstream popularity so it's pop culture impact is minimal by comparison. Yet how often is Loveless cited as a musical influence these days? Kind of like how the Velvet Underground became massively influential in the 80s despite minimal record sales in the 60s.
     
  4. BadJack

    BadJack doorman who always high-fives children of divorce

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Yeah, it does seem like Shoegaze is having a bit of a renaissance. I figured that the Slowdive tour would be to mostly aging '90's burnouts (raising hand) but I was surprised to see a huge younger crowd. Good.
     
  5. octaneTom

    octaneTom Man of Leisure

    Bigger influence on overall culture or music? I'll go w/ shoegaze for musical impact, I hear so much shoegaze influence in a lot of contemporary bands, but little 'grunge' left. (What even was grunge? Nirvana sounded a whole lot different from Soundgarden who also sounded different from Mudhoney who sounded different from Tad.)

    But as far as the fashion/cultural impact - grunge all the way. You couldn't throw a torn pair of jeans without hitting someone in a flannel shirt in the 90s.
     
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  6. Jet Age Eric

    Jet Age Eric Forum Resident

    Location:
    SIlver Spring, MD
    Two things:

    1. I don't listen to anything that's on the radio, but even I know that Foo Fighters are the biggest band in the land, that Soundgarden had some kind of resurgence in the last year and Pear Jam appear to still be a big deal, so I think, sadly, grunge still casts the longer shadow, but I thought it was crap then and I think it's crap now. Meanwhile, Swervedriver and Ride are still two of my favorite bands and the new bands I like tend to have at least little shoegaze in their DNA.
    2. Slowdive were complete nonentities in the '90s. I think everyone agreed that Souvlaki was better than the first record at the time, but they were going down on a sinking ship and hadn't been nearly as big a deal as Lush, Chapterhouse, Swervedriver (sadly falling between the cracks of grunge and shoegaze at the time) or even Boo Radleys or Pale Saints. I kinda don't understand their comeback, which is so disproportionate to their initial splash (or lack thereof). Here's hoping Ride and Swervedriver see similar/proportionate boosts next year.

      -E
     
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  7. bizmopeen

    bizmopeen Senior Member

    Location:
    Oswego, IL
    I think shoegaze has had more musical impact in general but I much prefer grunge. I like my incomprehensible lyrics couched in overpowering guitars to be angry rather than melancholy.
     
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  8. malco49

    malco49 Forum Resident

    both genre's that will not have long lasting ..impact on popular music.nirvana's influence is already fading....i just don't see the 20 somethings feeling their influence.of the bands listed in the OP comment i would say MBV will have and does have the most impact.nirvana just does not seem to hold up to me......(not that they were not great in their day) it is just that it did not last long enough and they became in effect the foo fighters
     
  9. redsmith7887

    redsmith7887 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I dig more of the wash of sound and noise that accompanied the shoegazing stuff - tends to embrace a musical esthetic that ticks more of my boxes. Just saw the Dream Syndicate Sunday night and they had a nice noisy shoegazing type act opening. 20 somethings - though they looked 12 to me.
     
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  10. mooseman

    mooseman Forum Resident

    Shoegaze for me, I do like some grunge groups. I was lucky to see Blur's first tour here in the east coast back in 91 with Slowdive and a group called Levitation. I have a large collection of obscure bands from that time on 12" eps.
    My favorites were , Pale Saints, Boo Radleys, Ride, Chapterhouse, Lush, Curve, The Telescopes, Slowdive...lots more, I have to check my record collection out later tonight.
     
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  11. CupOfDreams

    CupOfDreams Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Souvlaki is one of those albums that has grown in stature over the years. I think a lot of the shoegaze acts would have fared better at the time had grunge not blown up. And to a lesser degree Brit-Pop. I remember how brilliant the first Boo Radleys album was and they turned Brit-Pop.
     
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  12. I don't know where you get this from - while they didn't make any appreciable impact in North America, they were fairly popular on the other side of the pond - probably moreso than Swervedriver, and at least during 1991-93 - and were a relatively big deal if press notices are any indication. Certainly they were always among the key bands cited whenever shoegaze was discussed, and Nicky Wire probably wouldn't have claimed to have hated them more than Hitler if there weren't no thang, eh?
     
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  13. CupOfDreams

    CupOfDreams Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I think shoegaze will have a lasting impact although you never know how trends will go. Nirvana's musical influence has faded some but I think because of Kurt Cobain's death their legacy is secure. If he were alive and they sounded like the Foo Fighters it would probably be lessened.
     
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  14. DreamIsOver

    DreamIsOver Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago IL
    I've always found shoegaze more interesting in concept than execution. It seems like it should be right up my alley but most of what I have sampled has left me cold and believe me I've tried, particulaly with My Bloody Valentine. I can get into a couple songs on Loveless but I can't hear the "masterpiece" in it at all.
     
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  15. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I prefer shoegrunge
     
  16. Jet Age Eric

    Jet Age Eric Forum Resident

    Location:
    SIlver Spring, MD
    LOL! I thought Nicky's quote was just because they were just that bland--worse than Chapterhouse! I followed the British press for the few years when Shoegaze was a thing and I can literally recall a single Slowdive piece--I think even Moose got more press (I love Moose). I agree that, sadly, Los Swervies were underappreciated in the UK, but that gets back to my comment about them falling between the cracks--they made a much bigger splash in the States.

    The Boo Radleys switcheroo was very painful for me. :( I guess Souvlaki really has grown in stature (and I do think it's a vast improvement over the first record), I'm just surprised considering what I see as their VERY humble origins. -E
     
  17. CupOfDreams

    CupOfDreams Forum Resident Thread Starter

    The first couple of Boo Radley albums are brilliant. Also had all the early singles with non-lp tracks. Spaniard is one of my all-time fave opening tracks.

    Swervedriver had a sound that fit then alt-rock radio a little better but they still couldn't crack the grunge stranglehold. They had a great sound though.
     
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  18. contium

    contium Forum Resident

    Grunge certainly hit critical mass and blew up in the mainstream in the 90's. I don't think that is any reflection on quality. It was just something the MTV culture was ready for. I don't hear any grunge influence in new music being made today. I still listen to shoegaze all the time, never grunge. Shoegaze is having a bit of a revival right now thanks to the success of My Bloody Valentine touring. I know several people who have seen the current Slowdive tour and they can't stop talking about how great they are. I hear Ride are going to be touring too.
     
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  19. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I like both equally.
     
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  20. AlienRendel

    AlienRendel Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, il
    Death to false dichotomies!
     
  21. Guadalahonky

    Guadalahonky Forum Resident

    The best description I ever heard of 'Shoegazer' was 'the most beautiful music in the world. Played on lawnmowers.'
    And that style remains my favorite since I first heard MBV, Ride, & Catherine Wheel to name a few. It's nearly impossible to makes 'waves of feedback at
    ear splitting decibels' and make that a cross-over pop commodity.

    Grunge, on the other hand, was a sound easily co-opted and re-packaged by bands like Creed, Silverchair, Bush, and other bands of their ilk. Bands with nothing to say, and as a consequence, little staying power.
     
  22. Sean Sandoval

    Sean Sandoval Senior Member

    Location:
    Sweden
    I think Grunge is stale as bread today. But I did love it at the time!
     
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  23. They were certainly the musics of my young adulthood. And I swear, between 1989 and 1991 at least 2/3 of my music-buying dollars went to Sub Pop and Creation Records.
     
  24. DJ LX

    DJ LX Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison WI
    I tended to like the bands labeled as 'shoegaze' better than those labeled 'grunge'. However, it doesn't suprise me that grunge was more popular. The vocals in grunge were to the forefront and often screamed, whereas as shoegaze tended to feature breathy vocals buried under layers of guitar.
     
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  25. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek I’m a ray of sunshine & bastion of positivity

    I'm seeing more/only a shoegaze influence on metal and electronic music. Blackgaze bands like Deafheaven and Alcest and what some electronic artists like Ulrich Schnauss have been releasing.
     
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