https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p...tEUEwPQKxtK1Ev6Atko=w1073-h1903-no?authuser=0 Yesterday I got delivery of 1578 claimed to be made in 1973 (upper one in the photo). But it appears to be same as the one that I got last week. Both of them does not have shiny plate. I compared the sound of both in Line Magnetic 508 amp. They sounds almost same but slight high frequency noise that I noticed from the lower one is gone in the upper tube ). Thus I had decided to keep the lower one as reserve and use the upper one as my "holy grail" of 1578 Melz for the time being. I expect to get another Melz 1578 from Russia next Monday June 1st( fast DHL Express shipping from this Russian dealer only 10 day's within order) Matched pair Extremely rare 1578 6N8S audiophile 6H8S 6SN7 Metal base 653785085429 | eBay After I receive one next week, I will also do comparison. QUAD FOUR Matched Balanced Russian 6N8S 6SN7 double triode TUBE NEW NOS | eBay I also got delivery of Nos 6N8S tube yesterday. After testing 1578 Melz, I also put pair of above 6N8s tube in Line Magnetic 508 for comparison. Wow this 6N8S tube sounds very similar to 1578 Melz in overall signature while 1578 Melz give slightly more refined sound with wider and deeper soundstage. But the difference between those two are not that drastic. I can happily live with this 6N8s if I had not tasted 1578 Melz . I saw the letter Vi71 on the bottom of this tube, thus it could be made in 1971. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p...dqhYDM6pXlJyldx6rGx=w1073-h1903-no?authuser=0 i also have new production 6N8S stock tube from Schitt Freya+ pre. They looks similar except red logo in new production tube. I had done comparison of two tube in LM 508. Although both of them have similar signature of sound with full bass and sweet treble but new production tubes has some veil and lacks air compared with vi 71 version. After comparison of two 6N8S tubes, I was back to 1578 Melz. Everything sound more refined and impactfull and wider and deeper soundstage than both 6N8S tube. To me 1578 Melz is "holy grail " of 6sn7 tube. But 6n8s tube named vi71 Nos is a very nice value at 46$ per quad is a steal (best value overall). I had liked Raytheon Vt231 which cost me 65$ as excellent bargain, but this 6n8s may have gone farther as performance to value. Thus I had ordered one more quad set of 6n8s tubes just in case. It is time to summarize the shootout of 6sn7 tubes. 1578 Melz is the King of 6sn7 with nice decay, full bass, sweet treble, widest and deepest soundstage. TS, Syl, KR, RT and RCA Vt231 are just in second tier but they are all excellent tubes that I can live happily. 6n8s vi71 that I got yesterday is half notch below Vt231s made in 1940s and best value at 46$ per quad. All 6sn7 tubes made in 1950's are quite good but they have no more room to play in my system. They will be in in storage until I decide to sell them.
Someone tipped me about the manufacturing date on the etched note of the tube. The 1578 that I got was made in 1980. The 1578 that I got was made in 1983 not 70's. 8n6s Nos tube was made in 12/78.
QUAD FOUR Matched Balanced Russian 6N8S 6SN7 double triode TUBE NEW NOS | eBay After listening to 1578 Melz, I am back to Nos 6n8s tube made in 1978 that I got quad at 46$. By the way i got my first serious audio system on 1978. What a coincidence. This is a steal. It sound musical with good balance of full bass and sweet treble. Jump at it before they run out of this batch.
No thanks Thomas, I've got enough sets of great vintage 6sn7 tubes now, and I can only use one set at a time! But for others interested, this sounds like good advice.
For those who does not have many variants of 6sn7, this one will be fresh shock. Tubes made in 1978 in Russia sounds much better than expected with excellent bass.
After listening to 6n8s tube made in 1978 for several hours, I am back to Kenrad vt 231. KR also has nice bass with sweet and refined atmostphere. Definitely KR vt231 is at least half notch or even one notch above 6n8s . Now I have 16 different variants of 6sn7 tubess. After changing tube, sound also change as if new pre is being used. It is like tasting various wines or coffees. But if you do lot of tube rolling, be sure to use socket saver. CED P-ST8-1000 VACUUM TUBE 8 PIN OCTAL SOCKET SAVER for 6L6 6V6 6SN7 EL34 | eBay
You will not regret buying those quad at 46$. They give nice bass and wide soundstage with sweet treble.
Finally had a chance to have a play with my new RCA Jan 6SN7GT (marked GTB on glass) in the Saga and it's a lot of fun. A big sound, like hitting a 'more' button. My 6922 to 6SN7 converter arrived so I rolled in a PCC88 to check it, very different again, generally quite neutral with a slight presence lift. Still yet to try the mysterious and controversial GE mentioned earlier in the thread
About 2 hours ago, I got delivery of another 1678 Melz tube from Russia after one week from placing order. Very fast shipping. I had not got tubes from Ukraine that I ordered 5 weeks ago. It was made in 1980 and looks clean as Nos tube. After playing demagnetization track, I am listening to familiar music to me. "Thriller" by MJ sounds spooky with deep and full bass, wide and deep soundstage. Its bass, decay and soundstage is just beyond any other 6sn7 tubes. But people may get the impression that it is bass heavy. Now I have three pairs of 1587 Melz tubes and eight 6n8s tubes, I am going to stop shopping of 6sn7 tubes. After being back from Kr vt231 this morning, I found that 1578 has more body and decay while KR give almost same amount of details as 1578.
Another person got 1578 tube this afternoon from same dealer in Russia. His impression. big_greg 2,391 posts 05-28-2020 6:14pm First impression of the 1578 - wow! Looking forward to see how they sound after a little burn in.
Someone recommend Telefuknen 6sn7 but I found it is listed at 1,600$ from Italy. I am done for shoot out. zipost 148 posts 05-29-2020 10:11am shkong78..... when you get a chance, i strongly recommend the Telefunken 6sn7. With all the characteristics you described and your listening styles the Telefunken might be your cup of tea! here is my lists of 6sn7 in particular order: telefunken 6h8c 6sn7 GEC 1988 Metal base 6sn7 Amperex miniwatts ecc32 tungsol Round plates Tungsol 6f8g Round plates w/adaptor Sylvania metal base Kenrad black Round plate Metz Russian Hands down the telefunken 6h8c my go-to for 6sn7 Thanks for your recommendation. But there is no best thing for everybody. It will depend on system and personal taste. Also some audio gadgets are overpriced with hype or due to law of diminishing return. I have more than enough 6sn7 (18 different kinds total 80 tubes). Thus I am going to stop purchase of more 6sn7 tubes. Since my speakers with plasma tweeter and Dave and HMS is on the neutral or somewhat analytical side ( not warm or bloated) , my preference without considering cost is 1. 1578 Melz 2. TS bgrp 3. Syl vt231 4. Kenrad vt231 bg 5. Raytheon vt231 6. RCA vt231 gray bottle 7 6n8s made in 1978 8. Syl 1952 "Bad boy" three hole. 9 Syl 6sn7w brown base 10 Syl gtb tall bottle made in 1955 11 RCA gray bottle 12 Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z ( New production) 14.. CBS/Hytron made in 50's 15,Tungsol gtb tall bottle made in 1950’s 16. Amperex GTB 17. New production 6n8s ( stock tube of Schitt Freya) 18. New production Tungsol GTB
Someone is very happy with 1578 But I have a problem with one of tube. KR is dead quiet, but 1578 has hum and high frequency noise until 20 minutes warmup. I am going to wait few more days before I contact the dealer. big_greg 2,397 posts 05-29-2020 4:35pm I bought a pair of the Melz 1578 from the seller @shkong78 recommended for my Modwright LS 100. I played them for a while last night and they sounded really good right out of the box (I had the LS 100 in HTBP mode for about an hour to get them warmed up, watching TV). They are detailed, dynamic, and the bass is prominent with a texture that I have not heard in my system before. Pithy might be a good description of the sound of the bass. The soundstage was expanded and there seemed to be more separation between the instruments. I can't wait for them to break in a little more. They were one of the best bang for the buck upgrades I've made to my system. I've used Shuguang CV-181, the stock Tung-Sol tubes, Sylvania Chrome Domes, Sylvania 6SN7GTA "tall boys", and Sophia Electric clear and blue tubes. The 1578s were the best by far.
I am listening to "The Wall" . I am happy that Line Magnetic 508 fitted with 1578 can drive my speaker Lansche 4.1 with such full force and control of bass. It also give widest and deepest soundstage with holographic layering in my listening room so far. If you are bass freak or soundstage mania, then you shall try 1578 Melz Since having 1578 in my 2 channel system, I spend less time on headphones.. Headphones could not match dynamics and excitement of 2 channel system, although I have decent headphones, Raal Sr1a, Stax009s and HD 800s.
I'm building a SE 6BQ5 and will be using a 2C51 as driver. 2C51 is more or less the same as a 5670 which is more or less the same as a 6N3P. If soft start for filament and B+ these tubes have an extreemly long life, up to 100 000 hours. At the moment they are still affordable so bought three 2C51, three 5670, three Russian 6N3P-E and three Russian 6N3P-EV. I've a quad EH EL84, a quad Tesla EL84, a pair of Polam EL84 and a pair of Telam 84. I' using a Amperex 6NO60 as a delay relay for the soft start and have two. The delay relays are rated for 100 000 on/off. Do you think I have enough to last a life time? I build a 6BQ5 - 12AX7 7 years ago but regrettably sold it for building a PP amp that chewed the power tubes. It turned out that the more power hardly made a difference so am better off with a gently running SE 6BQ5. The driver tubes together cost me less than two new Tung Sol ECC803's. Similarly the Polam/Telams and Tesla's together cost me less than the EH quad (that was bought on special). If (and that is a big IF) international shipping returns to somewhat normal again then I might buy even more 5670's and the occasional NOS EL84 if the price is right. At this moment I am waiting for tubes that were shipped from Russia at the start of February..... ( a quad Polam EL84, a quad Tesla EL84, a pair and a quad 6P14P-EV). I'm also waiting for some high end tag strips from three different vendors in different countries, frustrated with the shipping. Have heard stories the number of parcels shipped has trebled require more staff (temporary, until it returns to "normal") whom help themselves to some goodies at times, especially small higher values parcels. About 30 years ago I bought some mono blocks with each 4 x KT88, the tubes were at the time reasonably priced, I look at the prices these days and am glad I no longer have those mono blocks. But having said this, I also remember the days that tube geared reigned and that the tubes were not cheap, a single 12AX7 being about 1/10 of dad's weekly wages (with overtime, middle income earner). There are those that say that if you know your NOS tubes and can buy these at the right price that it is a better investment than in the stock market. Personally I think the real bargains are largely gone. But if you intend to hang on to the amplifier / tube equipment then you might buy some spares rather than putting the money in the bank.
What's the Russian equivalent of a 12AX7? I'm curious about them, but maybe they sound similar to the current New Sensor made tubes.
NOS tubes and can buy these at the right price that it is a better investment than in the stock market. Personally I think the real bargains are largely gone. But if you intend to hang on to the amplifier / tube equipment then you might buy some spares rather than putting the money in the bank I agree with you. Nos WE 300B pairs made in 1940 that I had paid 3K$ 20 years ago fetch 10K$. Thus I had got three pairs of Kenrad, Sylvania, RCA Vt231 in addition to two pairs of Raytheon Vt231.
I am back to Kenrad vt 231 playing "Autumn Leaves and Songbird" by Eva Cassidy. Although 1578 Melz give best bass, decay, widest and deepest soundstage, it has two drawbacks. The first one is slight hum and high frequency noise which is almost gone after 20 minutes warmup while KR is dead quiet without warmup. The second one is that its treble can sound closed in slightly lacking air or sparkle. KR vt 231 sounds very similar to 1578 but with slight more sparkle. Thus I prefer KR to 1578 in playing lady vocal music like Eva Cassidy while I prefer 1578 in playing orchestral music. I will take turns at tubes to taste different flavor depending on music genre and my mood. But be sure to use socket saver if you roll tube often. CED P-ST8-1000 VACUUM TUBE 8 PIN OCTAL SOCKET SAVER for 6L6 6V6 6SN7 EL34 | eBay
Hum can sometimes be alleviated by using a hum pot: 250 ~ 500 ohm pot across the filament winding and the wiper to earth. Hum also depends on how the filament wiring is done, have even seen "professional" builders making mistakes in this regard. Hum is one of the reasons I do not like a PCB, besides that on a PCB eventually the tracks (connecting the PCB tube socket) either crack or work loose due to the heat produced, especially bad on output tubes with a miniature base (e.g. EL84) and/or running hot (like the TAD EL84.....). Chassis mounted makes it also easier to have some air circulation around the tubes. The Sovtek 12AX7 LPS has a spiral wound filament and is supposed to give less hum. It also depends if the cathode has a bypass capacitor or not. For me hum (cathode not bypassed) was one of the reasons to move away from the 12AX7 and replace it with the 2C51 / 5670 / 6N3P. The latter tubes (compared to the 12AX7) are supposedly more linear and both sides have been designed to be equal with a shield between them. ( The 6,7,8 side on the 12 AX7 has slightly less noise.) I now am also able to use a lot less negative feedback without making the amplifier too sensitive on the input. While on this filament subject: Using DC, constant current or in series will shorten filament life. @thomaskong - I do not like tube savers, they can add instability to your amplifier since no longer are the grid stoppers as close as possible to the pins of the tube. This is why I use only NOS ABC (Amphenol, Cinch and Belton) chassis sockets and in that order. Tube testers at sales locations had thousands of tubes inserted and still work fine. Most modern (Chinese?) manufactured sockets often loose their spring tension after a few times tube rolling. Omron (Japanese) is a good brand for Octal (used for relais), IIRC they are a copy of one of the best US sockets and Belton (South Korea?) is OK (but watch out for counterfeit) for miniature sockets. All the above contributed to me making my own amplifiers. With worsening severe arthritis I had hoped the last amplifier I build (an Audio Note PP clone) was the last one (no expense spared) but did not like it. So here I am again building an amp similar to the one I liked the most in the past. Have been slowly working on the chassis since end of February, have to stop when the arthritis gets too bad and then wait till it settles down again. Now waiting on tag strips before completing. AM
