Should I be offended? (Amp repairs) *

My thinking exactly, the customer suffers the inconvenience most of all, and should never pay for that.

 

Fixed it for you.

I did some warranty spot checking in the $3k integrated amplifier universe.

I couldn't find any that wanted the owner to cover shipping both ways.

PrimaLuna's language is fairly representative of what I'm finding:

"The warranty does not cover shipping charges to the service center, however, return shipping is covered."

There are perhaps others out there that would want owners to cover shipping both ways, I'm not saying there aren't any. I just can't find any, and I wouldn't deal with them.

 

I've had entirely different experiences with the two brands that had issues both within and just outside the warranty period.

1. Meridian 557 power amp lost one channel two months after warranty expiry. I paid postage to them, they repaired for free, shipped back at their cost, also reimbursed the original postage.

2. B&W PV1D created a 'pumping' sound about 1 month before warranty expired. The dealer returned to the manufacturer for me, it was repaired and returned directly to my house by B&W without issue & no cost. They also gave me a new warranty period, same as original but the fault repeated once again just before the new expiry. As before, returned by the dealer, repaired & returned without cost. That was several years ago & it's performed faultlessly since.

 

And I would personally recommend the PrimaLuna, they are great amps.

But the PrimaLuna EVO 200 (3k) is 44 watts not 100, and it is manufactured in China, not North America. If you actually need the power, you would have to buy the PrimaLuna EVO 200 monoblocks for $5398. Just as an aside: I greatly prefer the PrimaLuna design philosophy that overbuilds the amplifier and runs them cool.

The Dynaco ST-70 is $3K, but it is also only 35 watts. But you do get one way shipping. Decware sells a hand built tube amp in the price range, but it is 20 watts, direct only, but wow lifetime warranty (I don's see what the shipping policy is). What other hand built, North American amp do you recommend?

 

If your assertion is that you can’t built an amp with the Rogue specs in the USA for $3k without cutting corners on support, I’d say you’re getting pretty far out on that limb.

 

I was asking what amplifier manufacturer you recommended. I am going to guess that you don't have much experience with hand built tube amplifiers.

 

If your assertion is that all manufacturers of $3k handmade in the USA tube amplifiers behave similarly where warranty support is concerned, I’d say you need to provide examples.

Otherwise perhaps you can get to your point.

 

I've had to send two (three?) pieces of gear back for warranty work this year, a PS Audio pre amp, and Dynaudio speakers.

PS Audio paid both ways, Dynaudio only paid return shipping. Both issues were resolved, but I was definitely happier with PS Audio picking up shipping both ways. That being said, Dynaudio did replace both woofers, instead of just the one that was acting up, which I found cool...

Edit: both woofers meaning the same woofer on the other speaker also, so they match

 

Shipping speakers is a whole different affair.. And very expensive. This is why always buying speakers from local dealer, where I can bring it in for repairs and let him handle packing and shipping. Fortunately never had to use speaker warrantee...

 

First time for me too. Was feeling jinxed there for a little while lol

 

My GE Triton One are big and have electronics inside... My dealer is one hour drive away, so in case of service I will just bring it in..

 

I dread ever needing to ship a speaker. However, whatever expense there is should still be paid by the manufacturer under warranty. I paid the purchase price, and I am entitled to a working product for that price for as long as the warranty period. It’s not my fault as a consumer that the product failed, so I should bear no further burden. Any warranty that does not cover shipping both ways is garbage, especially if the shipping is expensive.

 

One of the factors which weighed into the decision of my friend to purchase a Rogue Audio amp was that they're local to him. Hoping he won't run into similar issues. Shipping costs aside, an amp of that price not working as it should would drive me bonkers.

 

Well, with dealer it is handle by dealer while under warranty, so I would bear no costs.. The good thing that he would even pack themselves, spearing you from this uneasy job..

 

Yes, that’s the way to go if you live anywhere near a good dealer, for sure!

 

I have Rogue, Decware and PrimaLuna amps, the Rogue and the Decware's being U.S.A. built (also Line Magnetic form China).

One thing that is worth mentioning. Is that many companies only honor their warranties to the original owner, which is important when buying a used amplifier.

Decware is the same with their lifetime warranty, but the do offer a subsequent buyer an interesting deal.

You send you amp back to to them for an evaluation, at a nominal charge and you do pay shipping both ways. You buy a new set of tubes and they will warranty your used amp for your lifetime.

Just F.Y.I.

 

Well that's fine, in your opinion, but it does not coincide with actual forum policy.

When you are accepted into the forum, you do agree to follow forum policy.

The forum apparently does not the thread listing filled with ambiguous thread titles, which tends the make the forum look to a new reader to be in the same league with poorly moderated forums, and it serves little purpose to do so.

If a member is going to initiate a thread, then I don't think that it is asking too much for that thread to have a proper title.

That would be in the best over all interest to other forum members and forum guests (who are future potential members).

 

I don’t disagree that it’s forum policy (clearly it is), I just think some forums can appear to be a little uptight with policies like this (and with sometimes heavy-handed moderation, which is SHF’s right to have on their site, but I don’t understand the philosophy behind it). It still seems to me that adhering to this policy is ultimately more beneficial to thread starters than to anyone else, which is reason enough to embrace the practice and follow the policy. I just can’t imagine being bothered by somebody posting a poor thread title. It rings a bit petty dictator-ish to me when it comes from forum members rather than moderators. At most, it seems like a PM would be the way to correct the OP rather than posting in the thread.

And, of course, we’re off topic...

 

Yamaha paid shipping both ways to repair my cd/sacd player, and it was out of warranty. When repaired player failed to work properly they replaced it with a new one and again paid for all shipping.
That’s how it should be done.

 

Any chance you purchased it with an American Express or other credit card that automatically extends your warranty?

 

Keep in mind the scale of this forum. Thread titles have to occasionally be edited due to their ambiguous nature only because longtime members know better. Otherwise, each page would be filled with vague threads like "I like this" or "Check this out!". No thanks to that.

 

The original title Should I be offended? before being modified my the moderators is a very classic example of exactly what I am referring to, having no particular meaning what so ever.

Which would explain the title modification by the moderators to include the "(Amp repairs) *".

Good moderation is not something that should be confused with "heavy handed" moderation.

Many member's will tell you that the reason that they choose to take an active part in SHF's is because of the quality of the posts and the degree of moderation, which results in the quality discussion forum that SHF's represents.

"It still seems to me that adhering to this policy is ultimately more beneficial to thread starters than to anyone else."

I agree with you that it , because it invites responses that are directed to the subject of the thread. But, it is one of those things where, when executed properly, there are only winners and there are no losers.

"I just can’t imagine being bothered by somebody posting a poor thread title. It rings a bit petty dictator-ish to me when it comes from forum members rather than moderators."

Petty "dictator-ish" is maybe a bit over descriptive for a member bringing it to the attention of both the OP and other members, that the title does require modification.

Afterwards, a moderator is usually alerted and will step in and modify the thread.

The public notification serves to alert other member's that attention has been called to this. By handling things in this manner, the moderators usually will not be receiving multiple requests to modify the title.

When things are posted in a thread that are not consistent with forum policy, then is is common for a member's to bring that to the attention of that poster.

Often things are resolved at that point and that further moderator interaction is rendered unnecessary.

This in effect, conserves the moderator's time to concentrate on other more important things.

The forum is perhaps not perfect, but it has been around a number of years and has stood the test of time.

Over this period of time, many have policies have changed as the forum continues to evolve and membership has greatly expanded.

 

Interesting thread. I took a look at the yet to be named companies' guarantee. As pointed out it is pretty clear that after 30 days shipping costs will apply. When the OP bought the amp he created a contract. The contract has terms that he agreed to. It was the OP's decision all along to try to trouble shoot with factory help at home. He could have "put his foot down" early on and insisted on a RA for factory service. Life persists and his situation changed. It sounds like this plus his frustration contributed to the delay in returning the product. My opinion is that if you but a $3000 amp then you read the contract terms and if you accept them, are prepared to abide by them. In my close to 55 years in the audio scene, I have found most companies want to satisfy and keep customers. Intermittent issues are problematic. The OP needs to shoulder some of the responsibility here for not asserting his contractual rights in a timely manner. Reporting the issues is a first step. As the weeks and months rolled by he had plenty of time to demand a return. He has a right to a properly functioning amp. He has no right to expect not to pay shipping.

 

If his amp is D.O.A. or is clearly not functioning within the first 30-days, then he should return the product to his dealer for service or replacement.

After 30-days has elapsed, then regular shipping charges apply, as clearly stated.

Rogue has been in business for more than two decades, they have proven to be an established ethical company that custom builds amps and has a good general history of quality control over their products.

My personal feelings are that there is something that has not been quite right concerning this thread, from the initial post.

 

I consider altering someone's post and submitting it as a quote to be poor forum etiquette, just short of being deliberately misleading. But not surprising considering you and the OP find the facts as stated to be inconvenient to your wishes.

I stand by my statement: The list of companies that will cover shipping...even one way...is much shorter than the list of those that won't, whether or not the item is under warranty. While the OP's lesson is an unfortunate one, he has no legal recourse, nor will he find an impartial judge sympathetic to his case.

No amount of groaning online or altering people's posts is going to change that.