Should I Upgrade my Yamaha A-S801?

If the price were $1K, it'd still be a great value by the standards of modern integrateds. You got a good deal.

 

Just to update, I did upgrade my A-S801. I considered the Parasound Hint 6, Musical Fidelity M6si, Marantz PM-KI Ruby (to match my SACD player) and the Yamaha A-S1200 and A-S2200. After watching and reading many reviews, calling a number of different hifi shops to talk about each of these amps and talking with a few people via PM, I decided to try the A-S2200. I bought from a retailer that I can return it to for a full refund if I am not happy, but I doubt it will be going back. I've had it a week and it sounds great!

 

You should be asking your wallet this question and not anyone else.
Let's face it, it is an endless money burning addiction but hey, at least, we are not burning money on drugs....lol
I always wanted to laugh out loud when someone talked about it is the endgame for them on some audio equipment.
There is no such thing as there will be something better all the time.

 

Feeling very envious. After you have had more time listening to it, please could you share what did you hear that was better/worse compared to the A-S801?

 

"could you share what did you hear that was better/worse compared to the A-S801?"

Presentation and use I would imagine for starters. (I have the A-S2100)
Plus they didn't mess up and put a DAC in it. (IMHO)

 

Absolutely. I have posted some things the thread below and will update things in that thread when the time comes:

2020 Yamaha Integrated Amps A-S1200/2200/3200

I also posted some things here:

The Yamaha a-s801 has arrived...

 

Thank you very much for the links, and looking forward to the updates.

 

OK, here's an update. I just dropped off my A-S2200 at a UPS Store. It will ship back to amazon tonight for a full refund. I had been waiting for the clarity and transparency I get with my A-S801 to arrive, but even after 170 hours of play time, it didn't come. I like the A-S2200, but that like never developed into love. To be sure, the A-S2200 is built incredibly well, looks great, has those cool meters and has a warm, thick, analog sound. Unfortunately, it isn't a good match for my speakers. In my system, the A-S801 is more dynamic, lighter on its feet, more neutral, has sharper images, better PRAT and better clarity than the A-S2200. So the 801 is staying and the 2200 is going.

 

The 2200 and other MOSFET Yamahas have higher distortion than the 801 and its BJT brethren, because the former were designed to mimic the sound of a tube amplifier. For the most part, the MOSFET Yammies are a successful blend of the best traits of tubes and SS, but they still lack the precision and dynamic punch of a good BJT amp.

That’s why I’ve tried to warn Yamaha fans that liking the sound of their 501/701/801 doesn’t mean they’ll necessarily find the A-SXX00 series a total upgrade. At least, that’s my conclusion after a few years with both an A-S500 and 1100. It’s not that the MOSFET Yamahas are a poor value compared to their BJT counterparts, rather, the BJT-powered amps are an incredible value and competitive with many higher priced integrateds, both on a subjective and objective level.

Like most B&Ws, your speakers likely have an amp-taxing EPDR of <2 ohms. If I were in your shoes, I’d consider the Anthem STR.

 

quoting myself here. I had the same results.

 

@Helom nails it again.
I have my A-S2100 in studio 2 where I want to relax and enjoy the music.
No critical listening to be done. Nobody's wrong, if everybody's right.

I'm sitting here listening and drinking coffee and I've just realized the
beard has grown longer over night.

 

Great info.
I also have a A-S500 w/ B&W 685 speakers and was looking into upgrading to a 1200 or 2200 series but also upgrading my speakers as well(KLH Model 5 or B&W 705 S2?).
What speakers do you feel match best w/ A-S series?

 

Yes !

 

Just another data point - I had a Yamaha A-S801 early on that I really liked. When I upgraded, I made the mistake of auditioning a Benchmark AHB2 for a few weeks, which predictably resulted in me grabbing two of them. End-game amps for me - they’re exceptional.

 

Same here. "Fatiguing" is the last word I would use to describe my A-S1100. I agree, it sounds smooth and just natural - extremely pleasing to my ears. I had an R-N602 before it and although it sounded great and kind of similar, it was just a tad colder sounding, maybe due to the BJT vs. MOSFETs, but that slight difference makes all the difference in the world. I now run the R-N602 into the A-S1100 for streaming, FM stereo, CD, tape, and a 2nd turntable. I have the R-N602 and a Technics SL-1210GR going into the A-S1100. I have Harbeth P3ESRs for the "in-studio" sound, and Heresey IIIs for the live venue sound. It's a great setup.

I have found the most important thing in music though is the mastering. It's not always the components. Whenever I'm not happy with how something sounds, I have to remind myself it's the mastering, not my system. All I have to do is put something else on that blows me away. A great system just reveals what's there.

 

Thank you, this is very enlightening.

 

I looked it up and the Anthem STR Integrated is a beast of an amplifier but also cost many times the price of the A-S801. It appears to have what looks like a huge toroidal transformer and big power capacitors to my untrained eye.

Do you think the A-S801 would benefit from having an "oversized" toroidal transformer instead the EI transformer it has?

 

Speakers are very subjective of course, but my favorites with my A-S1100 (out of many) have been Spendor, Stirling Broadcast, Vandersteen 1ci, New Large Advents, and the Magnepan .7s.
The Yamahas are voiced with a bit of “V-curve,” therefore, I would avoid speakers with elevated treble response, especially those with high energy above 8kHz.

I was suggesting he consider the Anthem because they can be found for similar prices as the 2200 he returned.

No, in fact, I think a toroidal transformer is a regression from an EI transformer in many cases. Most of the best amplifiers (preamp or amp) I’ve owned employed EI transformers — they’re far less susceptible to hum issues and seem to result in deeper bass. It’s my suspicion that Yamaha switched to toroids for the latest series to save on shipping costs, since packages weighing >50lbs tend to cost significantly more to ship. IIRC one of the Youtube reviewers of these amps alluded to having received that reasoning from Yamaha corporate.

 

was it night and day better? was it worth the upgrade?

 

Another thing to consider between the A-S1100/A-S2100 and the A-S1200/A-S2200 is the transformer. The former uses IR transformers and the latter uses toroidal transformers. That could (should?) have an impact on the sound between the two. Here's what Yamaha has to say on each:

A-S1100 - Features - Yamaha - United States

Along with the large capacity power source transformer equipped with an EI core, this design delivers bass reproduction that is both strong and uplifting.​

The A-S1100 employs an original EI transformer, carefully customized for optimum compatibility with the chassis. Combining four large capacity carbon sheath block capacitors delivers an energetic sound, even during high volume that is only possible with the A-S1100. Moreover, since the control amp and control system is equipped with twelve shunt type local regulators that prevent deterioration caused by current fluctuation, a clean and stable power supply is achieved. The EI transformer is mounted on the chassis using a brass washer, restricting internal vibration that would result in noise.
​

A-S1200 Integrated Amplifier - Yamaha USA

Toroidal power transformer with enormous energy for a pure musical sound​

Usually reserved for flagship Hi-Fi components, the A-S1200 benefits from the technical proficiency and absolute musicality of a toroidal transformer. Combined with an array of high-end Hi-Fi features and components, the toroidal transformer assists in ensuring the musical emotion is conveyed to the listener.​

​

 

marketing drivel

 

100%

In regards to George P's comment on the A-S2200: "In my system, the A-S801 is more dynamic, lighter on its feet, more neutral, has sharper images, better PRAT and better clarity than the A-S2200. So the 801 is staying and the 2200 is going."

If accurate, it makes you wonder if the A-S2200's toroidal transformer sacrifices the A-S1200's "energetic sound, even during high volume that is only possible.. with an EI core, this design delivers bass reproduction that is both strong and uplifting" for the "absolute musicality of a toroidal transformer."

Personally, I find the A-S1100 extremely musical. The review from Zero Fidelity made the A-S1200 sound like it wasn't quite musical, but instead "fatigueing" and too forward. So... I take it all with a grain of salt, and again it all depends on the mastering. Based on reviews and comments I'm guessing the A-S1100 /A-S2100 is somewhere between the A-S801 and the new A-S2100/A-S2200. They have the IR transformers vs. the toroidal, but they have a MOSFET vs. BJT design. They might be the happy medium.

 

FYI, Zero Fidelity reviewed the 1200, not the 2200.

 

Fixed. But the point is the same.

 

BTW, where are you with the A-S801 at this point? Are you planning to stick with it, or try something else?