Simply Red Mastering Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by ibis, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    Thanks Marcel, not sure how I missed it, good luck on your search! :cheers:
     
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  2. PH416156

    PH416156 Alea Iacta Est

    Location:
    Europe
    bump for this thread to prevent the lock...:D
     
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  3. mario villarroel

    mario villarroel Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    do you know when it was made; I mean the year of pressing of this Swiss Master, I think It is a later re-release. Maybe You know it

    cheers :righton:
     
  4. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    The Swiss #01 silver Elektra for Picture Book I have I believe was for the US market before SRC went online
    Smooth sided jewel, Patent Pending. Clues indicate 1985 is going to be the pressing date for this one
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
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  5. PH416156

    PH416156 Alea Iacta Est

    Location:
    Europe
    We had a couple threads about CDs pressed in Switzerland and their timeline, with some great info; courtesy of forum member @ffracer

    Phil Collins Face Value CD Made in Switzerland ? »

    Made In Switzerland?? Hearbeat City by The Cars »

    As for the Simply Red disc, I believe it dates back from 1985 and possibly one or two years later. All the "Picture Book" CDs I've seen were mostly manufactured in West Germany or Germany.

    Again, regarding Swiss CDs, the most "recent" one I've seen is a 1989 title, "Mascalzone Latino" by the late Pino Daniele. I have never seen, or knew about, post-1989 CDs pressed in Switzerland. Hope it helps.

    edit: I've seen @c-eling replied already :)
     
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  6. mario villarroel

    mario villarroel Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    so you mean by the number on the matrix such as 2895****?

    When I bought it on ebay I thought it was the west Germany Pressing, but when I noticed the bottom in the disc, I fell into uncertainty

    thanks for this info
     
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  7. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    To meet US demand, besides the West German for US, Swiss pressings could of been made as well.
    Uses the Polygram matrix style. Should match early Polygram W. German pressings
    Inserts are US Printed. Interestingly the booklet is somewhat shorter height wise than standard size
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. mario villarroel

    mario villarroel Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    is it a two-page booklet right?
     
  9. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    It is Mario :cheers:
     
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  10. mario villarroel

    mario villarroel Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    great! No idea that Switzerland also manufactured some early cd´s until now
     
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  11. mario villarroel

    mario villarroel Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    A new Flame

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Blue Gecko

    Blue Gecko Peace

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    The Picture Book CD pressings are interesting. I'll add my two PolyGram copies to the list.

    Picture Book [CD][1985 Elektra {Barry Diament uncredited}][WG for US]

    Catalog Number CD: Elektra 960 452-2
    Catalog Number Spine: Elektra 9 60452-2
    Pressing: PolyGam WG (Aug 1982-Jan 1986)
    Label: MADE IN WEST GERMANY BY POLYGRAM
    Barcode: 0 7559-60452-2
    Mastered By [CD]: Barry Diament uncredited
    Mastered By [LP]: Arun Chakraverty
    EAC: 100.0 / 100.0 / 88.7 / 74.5 / 83.8 / 86.9 / 62.7 / 76.0 / 86.8 / 86.7
    Label Code: LC 0192
    Matrix / Runout: 7559 960452-2
    Matrix / Runout: 2895 879 01 *
    Other (Mastering Code): BZ QP (hand etched QP)
    Hub logo: silverfacehub
    Label Country: MADE IN WEST GERMANY BY POLYGRAM
    Label Series: Warner by PolyGram; Warner red ring​

    Second copy is same except "Other (Mastering Code): A C (hand etched)


    Of other the copies, matrices, EACs, and catalog numbers I have found the following examples:

    Elektra WEA Germany International 7559-60452-2 (Matrix 755960452-2.3G WME)
    99.8 / 99.9 / 88.7 / 74.4 / 83.9 / 86.8 / 62.4 / 76.1 / 86.6 / 86.5
    Elektra Germany by Record Service GmbH, Alsdorf Matrix 960 452-2 SRC-01
    86.9 / 82.4 / 79.4 / 62.9 / 77.2 / 88.8 / 66.3 / 77.4 / 91.8 / 82.9
    Elektra WG Polygram 960 452 - 2 Matrix 7599 960 452-2 2895 879 02 #
    86.9 / 82.4 / 79.4 / 62.9 / 77.2 / 88.8 / 66.3 / 77.4 / 91.8 / 82.9
    Elektra US BMG Elektra 60452-2. SRC | artwork says EastWest Records 9 60452-2
    86.9 / 82.4 / 79.4 / 62.9 / 77.2 / 88.8 / 66.3 / 77.4 / 91.8 / 82.9
    EastWest 9031-76993-2 Made in Germany Matrix 903176993-2.3 WME IFPI 00607
    98.9 / 98.4 / 100.0 / 96.8 / 97.4 / 99.8 / 93.5 / 100.0 / 98.7 / 98.2
    Elektra WG Polygram 960 452-2 Matrix 7539 860452-2 2895 879 01
    100.0 / 100.0 / 88.7 / 74.5 / 83.7 / 86.9 / 62.7 / 76.0/ 86.8 / 86.7​

    My guess is that the first CD glass master pressed was the PolyGram 2895 matrix.

    Note PolyGram general matrix codes for years are:
    PolyGram codes (289) for other labels
    2891 = 1983
    2892 = 1983
    2893 = 1983
    2894 = 1984
    2895 = 1985
    2896 = 1986 when it started pressing as PDO, Germany.
    2897 = 1987
    2898 = 1988​

    When PDO began operation, it undoubtedly used PolyGram glass masters likely with the newer style Other (Mastering Code): BZ QP (hand etched QP). IO assume it represents the newer stampers.

    Of the 111 cds I own pressed by PolyGram WG (Aug 1982-Jan 1986), 44 have a hand etched Other (Mastering Code), and 33 initial release dates fall withing the PolyGram WG (Aug 1982-Jan 1986) initial pressing period.

    Other notable glass master matrix general extension information generally in order of first year of appearance:

    01 (without # * .)
    02 (without # * .)
    03 (without # * .)
    etc.
    01 #
    02 #
    03 #
    etc.
    01 *
    02 *
    03 *
    etc.
    01.
    02.
    03.
    etc.​

    Other (Mastering Codes) representing stamper appeared generally in the following order:

    1st: Other (Mastering Code) representing stampers initially absent.
    2nd: Other (Mastering Codes) appears as two letters hand etched typically in matrix band randomly located away from primary matrix
    3rd: Other (Mastering Codes) appears as 2 + 2 letters hand etched appearing in two distinctly separate areas of matrix band
    4th: Other (Mastering Codes) appears as 2 + 2 letters dot matrix (just to right of primary matrix) and hand etched letter in separate area of matrix band
    5th: Other (Mastering Codes) appears as 2 letters dot matrix (just to right of primary matrix).​

    Note that as far as I know, PolyGram only used letters for Other (Mastering Codes) and also used one letter verses two letters for Other (Mastering Codes). They can be very difficult to read and determine the letter intended.

    Actual examples of early PolyGram codes with hand etched Other (Mastering Codes):

    400064 2 02 E F DQ
    410021 2 01 BW TJ
    800 091-2 02 # EH
    811 835-2 01 # BG MA
    824 381-2 01 * M NK
    413 754-2 01. AG
    BIS-CD-272 2895 109 02 # KW
    7599 25342-2 2895 818 01 * AY JG
    7559 960452-2 2895 879 01 * C P
    7559 960452-2 2895 879 01 * BX QP​

    Based on the above information and that:

    Barry Diament stated that he did master the Picture Book CD
    Barry Diament mastered a lot of early WEA CDs
    Barry Diament did not receive mastering credit on all CDs
    Arun Chakraverty seems likely to be the LP credit
    Arun Chakraverty seems to have mastered few if any CDs.
    The Picture Book PolyGram 7559 960452-2 2895 879 01 * matrix is for 1985
    PolyGram pressed the 7559 960452-2 2895 879 01 * matrix for prior to 1st Gen SRC (Sep 1986-Jul 1987)​

    I assigned the mastering to Barry Diament uncredited. I'm not sure it's definitive or can be proven, but I'm using it until new information comes along.

    Thanks to all the forum folks who provided me with background information on PolyGram, Barry Diament, SRC, Simply Red, Picture Book and all the participants of this specific thread.
     
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  13. strippies

    strippies Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    update

    There is an Alsdorf pressing of the Switserland/Polygram master:

    960 452-2 Elektra Germany by Record Service GmbH, Alsdorf. Matrix: RECORD SERVICE/960452-2 03
    100.0 / 100.0 / 88.7 / 74.5 / 83.8 / 86.9 / 62.7 / 76.0/ 86.8 / 86.7

    Silver from edge to center hole.
     
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  14. candyflip69

    candyflip69 What's good?!

    Location:
    Melb, AUSTRALIA
    Anyone discussing the 25th Ann. edition of the STARS album on vinyl?
    How is it compared to the original etc?
     
  15. Neilson77

    Neilson77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nottingham UK
    Ok but which mastering of Picture Book is the best sounding? I have the original 1985 WG press, wonder if the 1992 Grundman remaster sounds better?
     
  16. Blue Gecko

    Blue Gecko Peace

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Simply Red Release Dates:

    Picture Book 11 Oct 1985
    Men and Women 09 Mar 1987
    A New Flame 13 Feb 1989
    Stars 30 Oct 1991
    You've Got It single Oct 1989 (A New Flame album)
    Both "A New Flame" and "Stars" credit the Mastering Engineer as Bernie Grundman
    The single "You've Got It" Elektra ‎– 9 66663-2 Maxi-Single credits Barry Diament on the Back of CD (traycard).

    per

    Essential Barry Diament masterings
    Post #723
    Simply Red - Men And Women
    If memory serves, I also did "Picture Book" and after I left Atlantic, the CD single for "You've Got It" (four songs total including a live "Holding Back the Years" and "I Wish").

    and

    Essential Barry Diament masterings
    #839
    pig whisperer said:
    The credit for Simply Red's "Men And Women" on the All Music site is Ted Jensen. Could this be for the LP? Is there a credit in the CD booklet?
    Barry, there isn't a credit for the "A New Flame" album on All Music - you did the four track "You've Got It" single from this album - and I wonder if you also did the album?
    Simply Red - "You've Got It" CD single (four songs total including a live "Holding Back the Years" and "I Wish").
    Simply Red - A New Flame (A New Flame - Simply Red | Songs, Reviews, Credits | AllMusic ??)

    Diament response to pig whisperer:
    I definitely did the EP (after Atlantic).
    As to the ones while at Atlantic, again, I must invoke the memory issue but if I'm correct, in addition to the first album "Picture Book" (which I definitely remember - one of those exceptions that stayed in memory), I think I might have done "Stars", "A New Flame" and "Men and Women" (Ted J did the vinyl). I know I did a bunch of Simply Red CDs.

    Since Diament left Atlantic in 1987 and "A New Flame" (1989) and "Stars" (1991) were released later, the Bernie Grundman credit on both their initial releases seems solid. So I have no evidence that later CDs were mastered by Diament. Prehaps there exists a reissue or later release with his mastering.
     
  17. Mbe

    Mbe Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Picture Book - Elektra 960 452-2 with full silver face
    Matrix: 7559 960452-2 2895 079 02 # GV

    The interesting aspect (dates) may be the hub inscription
    ‘MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO HANOVER’

    With Other;
    86.9 / 82.4 / 79.4 / 62.9 / 77.2 / 88.8 / 66.3 / 77.4 / 91.8 / 82.9

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. strippies

    strippies Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    I can confirm that my matrix 960 452-2 SRC-01 has the numbers in the rightmost column.
     
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  19. Mbe

    Mbe Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Just to add that the Japan disc in the table above is a wea Elektra edition;
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
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  20. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I have an early German CD with those peak levels and it sounds amazing!

    I found a DADC yesterday that has different peaks and sounds a bit brighter, more digital. I don't think the peak levels have been posted yet, so here they are:

    US DADC
    89/84.3/81.2/64.3/79/90.9/67.9/79.2/93.9/84.8
     
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  21. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    Nice find George, that Swiss for US is the only Picture Book I've ever come across out and about!
    I forgot about this thread :laugh:
     
  22. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Funny thing, I already owned and loved the WG (same mastering as your Swiss CD) and saw a DADC and a Swiss CD for cheap in a used store. Since I never heard anything about Swiss CDs and I like a lot of my DADC CDs, I bought the latter.
     
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  23. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    Michigan must of still been in it's cassette phase :laugh:
    Man it's like a lottery if I ever run into doubles of something (WG/Japan) related.
     
  24. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Yeah, it doesn't happen to me often either, but its sweet when it does. I can recall a few times where I had like ten different copies of a given used CD to choose from. That was the glory days of Princeton Record Exchange.
     
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  25. olinko

    olinko Forum Resident

    Location:
    Zagreb
    Still not quite sure which one is the Diament mastering, since the German disc credits Arun Chakraverty... or maybe I'm lost.
    What are the peak values for a confirmed Diament Picture Book?
     
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