Sinatra / Capitol 180g LPs: Wee Small Hours, Come Fly with Me, Come Dance with Me*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by randy9700, Oct 28, 2009.

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  1. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    You're missing the QuickTime Plug-in.
     
  2. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    Thank you. I'm using Linux but there may be a solution. I'll have to look into it.
     
  3. ArneW

    ArneW Senior Member

    Location:
    Cologne, Germany
    I think the original british tapes have been prepared that way (in the 1960s, that means). I don't think they added any reverb during the mastering stage.

    Arne
     
  4. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    So would this mean the new Capitol reissue used a British tape from the 60's that was remixed with reverb added to the vocals (since I don't hear the same reverb on the instruments)?
     
  5. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    The recordings for WSH were made direct to full-track mono (only). Any mixing and reverb was done in real time in the studio. The British tape could not have been remixed selectively.
     
  6. mbleicher1

    mbleicher1 Tube Amp Curmudgeon

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    Definitely not. I'm easily not the most knowledgeable person on this topic, but if I had to guess, I'd say the new reissue uses the early 60s "tampered" dub of the master tape that had added reverb. It doesn't sound like 2009-added reverb to me (or 1989, or 1991, or 1998…).

    Hopefully a Sinatra expert will be along soon to correct any misinformation.
     
  7. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Ok thanks to both of you. I'm certainly not a Sinatra expert either. I'm just curious because, as I wrote above, the reverb I hear on Greg's clip from the 2009 reissue sounds natural and doesn't seem to affect the instrumentation the way reverb added to "stereoize" one of the compilations I heard on Napster last night tends to "engulf" the whole track.
     
  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I'm pretty sure the first time reverb was added to WSH was around 1960/1961, by Capitol in the USA. The LPs that followed -- at least for a time -- used that reverbed tape. By the time my green label "Mastered by Capitol" mono LP came out (1979-1981 or so), they had apparently reverted back to the dry tape. It sounds to me like the new 180g LP has reverted back to the 1960/61 reverb tape.

    Matt

    PS - does anybody have, say, a mid-60s 12:00 rainbow issue, or a 1969 or 70 yellow-label Capitol that they could send me? I'd love to post that at the samples page. My guess is they will be "wet" tapes.
     
  9. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    Here's a clip joining the same two phrases from 'Mood Indigo.'

    The first is from the 1984 Alan Dell digitally mastered LP.
    The second from the 2009 Capitol.

    While the Dell is louder and brighter/glaring. The reverb sounds the same as on the 2009.

    Rather that assume they utilized a re-EQ'd version of the 1984 Dell for the 2009, it seems like they may have used the same analog source.



    http://www.box.net/shared/euzx67h1by
     
  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Interesting, and thanks for sharing that. Sounds to me like maybe both used the 1961 reverbed master as a source? Maybe?

    Matt

     
  11. floweringtoilet

    floweringtoilet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Warren, RI, USA
    There were two other LPs released in this "From the Vaults" series, Come Fly With Me and Come Swing With Me. Has anybody heard these yet?

    Despite the fact that I was disappointed Capitol used the "wrong" tapes for In The Wee Small Hours, I would still consider picking these up if they sound decent. I have a Mono UK 9:00 Rainbow pressing of Dance that doesn't sound particularly good, plus the Norberg CD (the less said the better). I have a 70s reissue LP reissue of Fly that is not so great and the Walsh CD, which is pretty good.

    So any word on the other two? If not, I might be the guinea pig for at least one of these.
     
  12. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Come Fly With Me and Come DANCE With Me!
     
  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    By the way, I went out and purchased the new 180g COME FLY WITH ME today during lunch. I'll transfer the title track later tonight to the "samples page."

    Matt
     
  14. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    BREAKING NEWS:

    I just put on the 180g LP from Capitol. It's MONO! (It says stereo, but it lies.)

    More to follow.

    Matt
     
  15. mbleicher1

    mbleicher1 Tube Amp Curmudgeon

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    Steve hinted at this back in February! In a thread about Come Fly With Me mono gray labels I started that was quickly axed by the Gorts soon after that tidbit…
     
  16. randy9700

    randy9700 Indian MC Rider! Thread Starter

    That's great news IMO. How is the sound? I will give the clip a listenwhen it is up but your thoughts on the quality of the sound and the pressing?

    Randy
     
  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I'll have a clip posted within 30 minutes.

    Matt
     
  18. randy9700

    randy9700 Indian MC Rider! Thread Starter

    For those interested I will post a few pics of the inner sleeve and the side 1 label of Come Dance with Me 2009 re-issue:

    Again, a very nice thick stock for the inner sleeve. I also noticed that Tower raised the price on two of the issues ever so slightly to $16.23 from $15.99 but I smell an even cheaper sale price from them in the offing. I would bet if you timed it right, you could get these there for 13.98 in the near future.

    Randy
     

    Attached Files:

  19. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Great to see the correct label and vintage innersleeve design used here too...
     
  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Yes, very true, but since it's mono, isn't it all wrong? Wrong front cover? Wrong back cover? Wrong label?

    Matt
     
  21. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Isn't COME DANCE in stereo here?
     
  22. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    'Come Dance' is mono?
     
  23. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Ack! I was talking FLY, y'all were talking DANCE. My bad! So sorry!
     
  24. Sean Keane

    Sean Keane Pre-Mono record collector In Memoriam

    What I find ironic is how Capitol, almost fifty years ago (judging from that sleeve reproduction), was so proud of their sound quality and wanted all to know. When was the last Capitol CD you saw hailed as being of the highest fidelity?
     
  25. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    The only time I've seen that inner sleeve is on albums from around 1961 and beyond. Not before.

    From the clip, the new 180 gram 'Fly' has the same amount of noise as my 'Wee' not good pressing quality at all, it's looking like...

    If the 'Catch Me If You Can' clip is an accurate reference, the old 12' o'clock mono clip I posted matches it for tonality more than the new one, IMO.
     
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