Sinatra Capitol 20 & 24-Bit Masters

That would be a strange coincidence indeed - even if the name "Bob Norberg" is not as unique as one would think: Just search the web on "Bob Norbergs" and you'll discover there are some of them who are also well-known to the public, e.g. the PRESS DEMOCRAT journalist of the same name. Bob Norberg's biography on Capitol Records' web site says:

but, it also says

Seems unlikely that Norberg the engineer co-wrote "Back Home" with Brian Wilson as early as 1963 - Chuck Granata is probably right on this!

Arne

 

Thanks Matt for posting Steve's explaination for some of the problems with "Come Fly With Me", and also thanks to feinstein, & ArneW for contributing.

I know I promised my comments on the EOTC "Only the Lonely" for today. This will have to wait a couple of days - I just got the disc back from who I lent it out to. Instead, I'm going to post my comments regarding the EOTC "Close To You"

Onto the recently released EOTC "Close To You". All tracks have the top somewhat rolled. Sometimes some boost below the rolloff is also present. I guess this disc is better than a bad copy of the LP, but that's not saying much. Some copies of the vinyl had the highs chopped off even worse than here - the good LP's are far better than this disc however. With this rerelease at least you could again easily buy a copy of "With Every Breath I Take". Talk about "lost" classics. A masterwork. It's incredible. I also here some "body" EQ'd in throughout. There is some subtle fake stereo widening throughout - subtle due to Frank singing softly most of the time on this album. There's usually not enough force to "excite" the processor much, but the widening effect is quite audible when he uses more force, often accompanied with some "breakup" (especially noticeable through headphones). Most of the time however, this processing here just makes the image lose solidity and become slightly diffuse. Also, you'll notice a trace of a "garbeled" sound on Frank here and there throughout this disc. Quite a bit of noise reduction is used throughout. Some tracks, such as "I've Had My Moments" have more audible damage than others due to the NR, suffering from a lack of natural "flow" & "pace", more like music coming out of a computer and less like the real thing. There's a bit of hardness on "P.S. I Love You", noticeable when Frank sings louder. There's also a trace of hardness on "With Every Breath I Take", "It Could Happen To You", & "Don't Like Goodbyes", quite noticeable on the strings in the instrumental middle section of this track. Frank's a bit congested sounding on "It Could Happen To You". "It's Easy To Remember" has peculiar sounding EQ - there's a bit of nasality, a trace of hardness, and the strings sound a bit odd. "I Couldn't Sleep A Wink Last Night" is peculiar sounding and somewhat agressive due to seemingly heavy handed EQ. There's also a trace of distortion here at 1:29. There are some glitches in the form of "rubs" on "Don't Like Goodbyes" at :01 1/2, 2:58, 3:00, 3:08, & 3:10, on "With Every Breath I Take" at :01 & 2:37 1/2, softly on "Blame It On My Youth" at 1:18 - 1:19, softly on "It Could Happen To You" at :01 - :02, and a slight "rub" on "The End of a Love Affair" accompanied by a dropout (?) as it turns :02. Also on "The End of a Love Affair", at 2:06 in the left channel, there's a glitch sounding somewhat like someone blowing their nose, but actually more "fart-like" (flatulence). Unlike the "rubs" on this and the other songs listed, it's not subtle. I played this track for my mother - when it got to the "fart" her eyes bulged and she laughed and almost ran into a wall. Honest. In reality, this noise appearing here is not funny. I'm sure it goes without saying that Frank would not have been pleased if he heard "fart-like" noises on one of his albums. Maybe they were inspired by the movie "The Hollywood Knights" and had "Newbomb Turk" (Robert Wuhl) fart this song (all over the stage) instead of "Volare". In all seriousness, how could they let this disc get out with this? If you feel my language is vulgar, I apologize. It is no more inappropriate than this sound appearing on "The End of a Love Affair". This sound appearing here is insulting to Frank and the listener (IMO).

 

MMM,

Thanks for the service to the avid Sinatra fans you've provided in this thread. For those of us who are mere Sinatra dilletantes, though, which of the CDs, past or present, offered "The Lady Is A Tramp" in the best available sound?

 

Thanks SGB for your interest

I haven't heard all the CD's out there that have "The Lady Is A Tramp". Considering what I have heard, to my ears the version appearing as a bonus track on the original (1991) CD of "A Swingin' Affair!" sounds best. Sure, it ain't perfect, but it's decent. It has no extraneous processing - NR, "widening", etc. Some versions of this song (not this one) are a slightly different alternate take. The alternate is on "The Capitol Years" 3CD set, and also appeared on an LP called "Sings the Select Rogers & Hart" in the 60's. Maybe someone knows if it's appeared elsewhere?

MMM

 

Well now, that raises another question: Are we more accustomed to hearing an alternate version these days, or is the original version the one that we might hearing in movie soundtracks or on the radio or TV?

 

If I remember correctly, the "Pal Joey" soundtrack LP (and I guess the CD) uses the version that is a "bonus track" on "A Swingin' Affair!. Frank re-recorded his songs for "Pal Joey" at Capitol for the soundtrack album. If you have a stereo LP of this, Frank's re-recordings are "duophonic" fake-stereo. The "other" songs are in real stereo, as they were recorded on the film soundstage. Capitol still didn't make a full commitment to stereo in August (?) 1957, when Frank did these re-recordings, so some things were still being recorded only in mono, even though they were recording some things in stereo (Frank's "Where Are You?" album, recorded in April & May 1957 for example).

The versions of the songs that Frank sings that appear in the actual movie (that were recorded on the soundstage) will be released shortly (May 21?) on the "Sinatra In Hollywood" 6-CD box, produced by Chuck Granata & Didier Deutsch. However, they are not in stereo here. The original "music only" multitrack 35MM mag tracks are gone. All that's known to be left of the songs without any film post-production (dialogue, effects, etc.) are shellac playback discs. They used a tape of these, as it was their best available source.

MMM

 

Onto the EOTC "Only the Lonely"

"Frank Sinatra Sings For Only the Lonely" as a recording (seperate from its music) is an oddity. All of Sinatra's other Capitol concept albums were recorded by a Capitol engineer, usually John Kraus, John Palladino, or Hugh Davies. However, around the time when "Only the Lionely" was recorded, Verve Records used Capitol's Tower recording facilities quite often. It is well known that Val Valentin recorded a lot of Verve albums. What is not so well known was that he engineered the 3-track master of "Only the Lonely". There is also something else odd about this recording: in varying degrees, it has more tape hiss than normal (supposedly an experimental 3M tape formulation didn't match well to the Ampex recorder). While there are no hiss-free recordings from 1958, Capitol has tried to reproduce sucha thing for compact disc. Capitol has used heavy noise reduction on this transfer of "Only the Lonely". While some hiss remains, much has been removed. Also, the deep & wide soundstage this album once had is gone here. The perspective here is closer and is narrowed. The problem is that much of what once contributed to the drama of this masterwork has also been removed. On the title track, the treble is rolled off the orchestra (and a bit on Frank). Frank is warm, full, and upfront (this is true throughout this transfer). Normally, this wouldn't be such a bad thing, but this is "Only the Lonely", and the once lonely sound is gone. Using Frank's vernacular, these problems "kill the feeling". There is a slight electronic tinge to the sound - the music doesn't flow naturally. "Angel Eyes" is similar: everything is more upfront with less apparent depth. There is less nuance & sublety. It doesn't "breathe", there is no "air". It isn't as "lonely" sounding as it should be. "What's New" is a good example of part of the problem with the use of the noise reduction. The sense of a natural acoustic space is all but dried up (not only this track however). Frank is a bit nasal and somewhat hard sounding. There is also a bit of noise pumping (variations in the volume of the tape hiss) that pops up a couple of times. "It's A Loesome Old Town" is noticeably closed-in sounding. The treble is rolled off the orchestra, and there is a general electronic tinge to the proceedings. "Willow Weep For Me" has the top end rolled off and the "presence" region boosted a bit, probable to compensate (actually this EQ pattern occurs in varying degrees throughout almost all of this issue of "Only the Lonely"). In particular, the strings, guitar, & drums are affected on this track. the drums are now too prominent (almost agressive in spots) and there is an unnatural sound on all these. "Goodbye" is very upfront (again, this occurs throughout this issue), there is some smoggy echo noticeable in the beginning, and an electronic tinge that slows the natural "flow" of the music. "Blues In the Night" is ruined. The mood is "killed". Frank is way too warm and upfront, and somehow a bit agressive when he sings loud at the same time. I also hear a trace of a "garbeled" sound on Frank in a couple of instances when he sings loud (maybe thru a touch of fake stereo widening? - I'm not sure). The once very dramatic, almost whisper-like intro is drastically changed. The EQ is poor - it seems to be EQ'd to bring out the overall volume of the cymbals, without regard to the actual cymbal sound, and all subtlety is gone. There is also an electronic tinge to the proceedings, quite noticeable in the aforementioned intro to the song. "Guess I'll Hang My Tears Out to Dry" has smoggy echo, poor string tone, too much upper bass, the treble rolled off, & heavy noise reduction. The guitar introduction, which required some hard work to play properly, is now a muddy, bottom heavy mess, lacking in detail. An electronic tinge also permeats. "Ebb Tide" has the treble rolled off with a bit of "presence" range boost. For example, notice the way the harp sounds due to this. "Spring Is Here" has similar problems, with the addition of a touch of bass boom. On "Gone With the Wind", rank, besides being too warm full and upfront, has a touch of hardness when he sings loud.

When Frank would perform the last song, "One For My Baby" in concert, he would often give a spoken word introduction that set up the song and showed his affection for it. He has referred to it as "one of my special favorite songs", "the best song that typifies this kind of trap"..."wher you go and weep in your wine", and also "Now there are saloon songs and there are saloon songs, but this one I believe is the daddy of them all". It's obvious that Frank held this song in high regard. It's also obvious that Capitol doesn't, based on their transfer of it on this issue of "Only the Lonely". It's a mess. It isn't mixed properly here, with the piano now spread too wide. To accomplish this, it sounds like the volume on the left channel of the 3-track was turned up too high. That's minor compared to what follows. Frank sounds processed and electronic, with very audible noise pumping (due to very heavy noise reduction), unnatural, poor silibants, and perhaps worst of all, fake-stereo like processing on his vocal (remember, this is a stereo recording). He also doesn't "walk" off the left side of the stage anymore; scuse him while he disappears. This must be heard properly to be believed. This gives the impression of a total lack of respect for Frank Sinatra and his masterpiece album. A desecration.

 

From all of the various LP's and CD's of the stereo "Only the Lonely", it seems that the mid-80's British digitally remastered LP is the one to have. It even surpasses my orginal late 50's U.S. Capitol pressing in terms of presence, realistic soundstage, and orchestral/vocal balance.

However, IMHO, the late 50's mono release of this particular album is much preferable to any of the stereo versions. Much better high-end and smoothness on the mono's (maybe due to the experimental tape formulation used on the stereo, as mentioned in the liner notes to the original "Only the Lonely" CD from 1992.).

All of the previous comments from MMM not only apply to the 20 bit "Entertainer of the Century" releases from 1998 but also to the 24 bit "Concepts" release of this CD from 2000. It seems that much of the same mastering techniques were used for both releases, even though they are completely different masterings.

 

Probably one of the most dramatic points of how the 1998 and 2000 remasters of "Only the Lonely" change the soundstage and "feel" of a track by bringing Frank's voice to the forefront can be heard on the track "Willow Weep For Me". Listen to the brushed snare drums on the LP versions versus the CD remasters. On the LP, they have a subtlety about them which really adds to the desolation of the song. On the CD remasters, it sounds as though the drummer is hitting a loud tom-tom instead of lightly brushing snare drums. Interesting how these remasters really changed the
"feel" of this album....

 

Well, the LP used the original "subtle" mix. The CD uses this remix from the three-channel that is far from subtle.

 

feinstein,

Thanks for comparing the Concepts and EOTC "Only the Lonely" for me and all reading this thread.

The stereo LP compared to the CD - the LP is a whole different experience. Glad to see you found a section to detail here that you found to disturb the "feel".

Stereo vs. Mono - You say tomato, I say Tomahto - I much prefer the stereo version, even with all that hiss. They sound different to say the least - the mono version uses more microphones than the stereo (to the best of my knowledge and also just by the way it sounds in comparison). I actually find the mono less "smooth" & extended. If I remeber correctly, there is more upper mid/lower treble energy on the orchestra on the mono version compared to the stereo version. They are quite different. One example of a difference in balance that sticks in my mind in how much louder the piano is in "Angel Eyes". This all reinforces even more what I've posted earlier in this thread on the need to have both the mono and stereo versions in print on the titles where the mono and stereo version are two different recordings with different microphone setups. With "Only the Lonely", this would have to be a 2CD set, due to its length. (Actually, there should be all analog LP's to go along with any possible new CD issues, even if only limited edition - the ones with mono and stereo versions would all obviously have to be 2 LP sets).

Thanks also to Angel for your contribution.

 

feinstein,

Is the British LP of "Only the Lonely" you refer to the "Alan Dell" produced one,with the silver & black sticker on the front that says something like "Sinatra - Sounds Better Than Ever"? I've passed on these in the past (not just "Only the Lonely"), guessing they probably weren't any good. I think they're fairly common, even in NM condition. If this is the one you are talking about, I guess I'll have to get one.

Also, do you have a gray label mono LP of "Only the Lonely". I could swear I saw one once and passed because it wasn't in good shape. This was at the beginning of my buying old Sinatra LP's (actually buying used vinyl in general) and I didn't realize I might not ever come across another one. I think they exist (?)

MMM

 

Onto the recently released EOTC CD of "Nice N' Easy".

Throughout this issue the highs are rolled, accompanied by a bit of boost below the rolloff. With this EQing, a bit worse on some tracks than others, most of the shimmer to cymbals and sheen to the strings is gone. Quite a bit of noise reduction is also used here throughout. Often times throughout, the "pace" & "flow" suffer. This is usually noticeable when the music is being played softly. When it occurs, the sound just oozes out of the speakers instead of coming to life (breath-of-life support?). At least Bob didn't strip away the beautiful, textured sound of this album. It should be noted that on many tracks, the original LP's used too much echo on Frank - not in the form of a wash of echo over the proceedings, but on some tracks he sounds too far away, due to the echo added when this was mixed down back then. In this regard, Bob has done somewhat better by not making Frank sound too distant. That said, there's often too much echo used (IMO). Where he added echo (you do have to add a TOUCH - the 3-tracks should be dry - but not this much) it is in a different way than originally done. Before, the echo was just basically mono behind Frank's vocal. Now the echo is stereo - it spreads out to the sides. I have no problem with stereo echo at all in and of itself, but here, especially since Bob used too much of it (IMO), some intimacy is lost. Only a touch of echo should be used on Frank here (IMO).

Some individual problems beyond my general comments: On the title track, the bass is a bit much - check out that kick drum around 1:23 - ouch - must be some of that sound from that "black box" (or whatever he calls it) that Bob Norberg talks about. The echo sweems to take awhile to decay on this track. Also, while it's nice to have the improved channel balance, the overall volume of the orchestra is too loud. On "That Old Feeling", Plas Johnson's sax just doesn't have IT like the LP at all. No magic whatsover here. Tonally there's no top (basically opposite of the previous CD wehere the sax didn't have "body" if I remember correctly). It doesn't come to life, and it's too close - it sounds like John Kraus stuck a mic into the sax - ridiculous (although that technique of sticking a mic into a horn sounded great on The Beatles). Frank's vocal on "How Deep Is the Ocean" isn't very good sounding. It sounds like it has a peak in it very similar to the peak in the orchestra used to restore "detail" after castrating the highs. On "I've Got a Crush On You", Frank sounds slightly agressive. On "You Go to My Head", there's a good example of how you can't restore detail after chopping off the highs by boosting the frequencies below the rolloff beyond the usual examples (cymbals, etc.). The flute technique gets somewhat obscured/buried here, especially noticeable in the instrumental middle section. There are thumps on this track at 4:01, along with a quick trace of distortion in the right channel. This seems to come from the tape itself - I notice a trace of this on my LP. Back then, they probably "hid" most of the "thump" with compression and high-pass filtering I would guess. Amazingly, considering how much Bob likes to process, filter, etc., Bob leaves this alone to stick out like a sore thumb, but he has no problem with filtering out the highs!!! On "Fools Rush In", the flute is too loud, and it doesn't stay put. He somewhow got it to circle around a bit (left to near center) like a bird circling around; its placement becomes indistinct when Frank isn't singing. On "Nevertheless", the feel of a human hand plucking the bass strings (this feel is amazing on the LP) on the intro is gone. Also, due seemingly form the EQ used here, the horn section on the left doesn't sound very good and becomes too prominent at 2:03 - 2:06. This occurs near the end of the song as well. On "She's Funny That Way" at :39, :44-:45, there's a glitch that's difficult for me to explain. This glitch almost sounds like someone was trying to shove something in Frank's mouth as he was singing. Disgraceful. On "Try a Little Tenderness", the violin solo sounds peculiar in the intro, and again in the middle section before Frank comes back in before the ending. I'm not sure how Bob did this, but it sounds somewhat like Felix Slatkin gets up out of his chair to walk towards the front and closer to the center - UGH!!!

BTW - This is one of the very few examples (IMO) where one of the "bonus tracks" is appropriate. I know this is heresy, but try listening to this album by playing "The Nearness Of You" first, then the rest of the original tracks in the normal order.

MMM

 

I apologize for making a few errors when posting my findings on the EOTC "Nice N' Easy". Between forgetting to write down something and feeling rushed as I posted the last time (I was in a library - they were closing -my office e-mail was down) I made a few mistakes. I just corrected the last of them where I said something about high filtering for the "thumps" in "You Go To My Head" and how they "hid" them on the LP's. Obviously "high filtering" makes no sense - I meant "high-pass filtering" which I've now edited in my previous post. Sorry for any confusion.


Onto the recently released EOTC of "No One Cares"

As usual, it seems that top priority was given to reducing noise on this master by using NR and EQ-ing, over providing natural sound. The highs are rolled off and frequencies below the rolloff are boosted throughout, although some tracks sound worse than others. Due to this, the string tone suffers - pretty important on an album with arrangements relying so heavily on strings. As I said, some tracks are not as bad as others, but those one or two relatively more listenable tracks are exceptions to the rule - usually the string tone is quite poor, and very much so on tracks such as "I Don't Stand a Ghost of a Chance With You" and in particular on "I Can't Get Started". Ignoring for a moment how screechy the string tone becomes here sometimes, the EQ-ing also brings out the volume too much in some of the strings that shouldn't have their volume brought up, as it somewhat obscures the strings that are playing the melodic line in this arrangement. The "other" strings now EQ'd "up" were meant to be in the background and should stay there. (In relation to that Audiomedia thread I posted a while back, it seems to me that Bob felt the music was just sitting there and he wanted it to "go somewhere". However, it was not just sitting there previously and was clearly "going somewhere" without his revised mixing/mastering). Listen to the section from 1:06-1:22 here and then listen again to it on a good LP (if you have one) and you'll immediately hear this. On the title track and, to a lesser extent, "I'll Never Smile Again", the "pace" and natural flow has slowed, giving a bit of an electronic tinge, perhaps due to the NR. Fake stereo-like widening on Frank is used throughout. The "widening" effect intensifies when Frank exerts more force. This is also accompanied by some of that "garbeled" side effect of the widening that I've mentioned in previous comments. The best way I can describe this "garbeled" sound (and this relates to my previous posts where I've mentioned this "garbeled" sound) is it's like a slight touch of vibrato on Frank that wasn't part of his performance originally. Usually, this effect manifests itself when Frank exerts more force (like the widening), but occasionally I hear a bit of this garbeled effect even when Frank isn't exerting much force, such as on "A Cottage For Sale". On "Just Friends", Frank is a bit nasal, and on some tracks such as "A Ghost of a Chance", "None But the Lonely Heart" and, perhaps to a lesser extent, "Here's That Rainy Day", Frank becomes somewhat agressive when he sings loud. Also, there's a trace of distortion on Frank on "A Cottage For Sale" at 2:19-2:21 and on "Here's That Rainy Day" at :51.

BTW - Today is May 14 - 4 years since Frank passed. Rest in peace.

 

Thanks Feinstein.

I recently aquired the 1984 UK LP Box Set of "The Capitol Years' and will compare 'Only The Lonely' to the MFSL Box Set version.

I checked out 'Swing Easy' last night (it and 'Songs For Young Lovers' each have four extra songs not in the MFSL versions). While the pressing is very quiet and nice, I immediately noticed the echo that is NOT on the MFSL version.

The first of these UK pressings I have listened to seem to be very nice.

Great thread we have going here. Lots of good info about Ol' Blue Eyes, or as my 80 year old lady friend says 'Frankie!'.

 

Tim - thanks for contributing

It seems that the UK box (I don't have it) you talk about Tim uses copies of the "double extra echoed" tapes for "Songs For Young Lovers" and "Swing Easy" which is why you're hearing so much echo on the British LP issues you mention. What tipped me off was that you said that each album had four extra songs. This indicates that those LP's use copies of the U.S. Capitol W-1429 (Swing Easy) and W-1432 (Songs For Young Lovers) masters. These were "expanded editions", seemingly to make more profit so they could get away with selling these albums as two seperate 12" LP's. When these masters were created, it seems they redubbed the W-587 master (which already had added echo compared to the H-488 and H-528 ORIGINAL MASTERS) and added even more echo (I doubt they pulled the real masters and added echo to those, but maybe someone here knows for sure), which is why you hear so much echo on those records. If I remember corrctly, "Swing Easy" in particular sounded poor on the W-1429 12" LP. It's actually an excellent recording, but you'd never know it by listening to the W-1429 version - the EQ done to this tape was poor. If the British version you mention actually sounds good, they probably had to work hard "reverse engineering" it to get it to sound decent. As I've said in a previous post, I haven't heard the MoFi, but I'm pretty sure they used the echoed W-587 master for their verson of these albums. However, the W-587 master has a lot less echo than the W-1429 anf W-1432 masters.

- (See a previous post in this thread where I discussed the W-587 "Songs For Young Lovers" and "Swing Easy" master - thankfully Steve backed me up on what I stated. Although I only discussed "Songs For Young Lovers" in that post about the "wrong" tapes being used in the U.S. since 1955, my comments also apply to "Swing Easy", as echo was added there too).

I can't stress enough that if you want the best version available so far (to the best of my knowledge) of these albums, get yourself the Japanese Capitol LP from the (early ?) 80's - ECJ 50065. It was made from a copy of the real H-488 and H-528 masters. No extra echo whatsoever, and the most natural sound I've heard so far. (Of course Steve could issue something that would smoke this).

MMM

 

Thanks MMM.

I would like to know where to find one of the Japanese Capitol's. Mostly all I see on eBay is Capitol 70's and 80's reissues (US and UK).

Feinstein states the 2001 Concepts uses the non-echo masters you speak of (H-488 and H-528) . I may have to justify buying a set.

Feinstein:

I listened to 'Only The Lonely' and this UK 1984 Digital LP is more open sounding than the MFSL, but they are close. The UK pressing is very quiet (not as quiet as the MFSL) but does sound distorted in some places. But I heard what you were talking about on 'Willow Weep For Me'; the drum brushes are outstanding.

I have played 'Swing Easy' and 'Only The Lonely' so far and for commercial releases they are outstanding as far as surface noise, warpage, etc. They sound to be very high quality so far.

The digital mix on the 'Swing Easy' sounds different from the MFSL aside from the echo. The different instruments sound more separate and distinct and have different prominence in the mix than on the MFSL version.

 

Not all Japanese LPs are created equal

Although Japanese Capitol LPs can be very good at times, it is hit and miss. I don't have that many of them but these two are certainly to be avoided: "This Is Sinatra" and "High Society". They sound overprocessed and have a bloated bass. Stereo imaging on "High Society" is even more weird than on any other release. If you are looking for a decent sounding LP of this great soundtrack, the one to get is the English pressing (Catalog No. LCT 6116) which had been in print until the late 70s.

"No One Cares": This is the Sinatra LP to have on MFSL. Absolutely outstanding. The "old" Capitol CD is probably a (not too) close second with (according to Steve) slightly narrower Stereo imaging.

Just my € 0.0228

Arne

 

ArneW,

I only have a few Japanese Capitols - you seem to be right about them not all being great. But that "Songs For Young Lovers/Swing Easy" from the 1980's I mentioned is worth every penny. It should cost about $25 to $30.

MMM

 

Tim,

I forgot to give you some advice on where to find Japanese Capitol ECJ-50065 (I'm 95% sure that's the correct catalog #) - "Swing Easy/Songs For Young Lovers". I would think that any store that sells classic pop vocal LP's should be able to get you one of these. I bought mine at Footlight Records in N.Y.C. I don't know if they do mail order, but it is probably worth giving them a call. Even if they don't have one, you may be able to give them your name so they could let you know when they get one in.

MMM

 

Sinatra Japanese Swing Easy LP

I don't know anything about this store, but this web store lists one.
BC

http://www.switch.co.jp/rakuan/jazz.htm

 

Thanks MMM. I will give them a call.

Steve, it sounds a little bit like you want one to use for research for a potential future mastering project?

 

All this discussion again about "Songs For Young Lovers" and "Swing Easy" prompted me to take a couple of hours to re-listen again to the various pressings/versions I have of these albums. With regard to that bit of echo being added to these albums for W-587, in a previous post on this thread after I originally brought this matter up, Steve replied and seemed to think it was possible that a touch of echo was added wen the dupe for W-587 was created. However, Steve has also commented to me recently that he has an original W-587 (both original 10" albums on one 12" LP) that sounds like it was made from the master (Thanks Steve). Upon relistening to my original gray label pressing (with 3/4 circle on label) of W-587, it seems that it is possible that a touch of extra echo was not added when W-587 came to be - I'm not entirely ruling out that a touch of extra echo was added, but it is possible that the differences in how much echo I'm hearing could just be due to differences in EQ between the Japanese LP I've mentioned, and "other" versions of W-587. No version I've ever heard of W-587 could be considered echo-laden, so the differences I hear in the amount of echo are small (don't fall asleep on me yet).

With regard to what I refer to as the "expanded editions" of these albums where Capitol issued each of these albums as seperate 12" LP's with 4 "bous tracks" added to each to fill out a 12" LP, both of these (W-1429 "Swing Easy" & W-1432 "SFYL") definetly have echo added - no question (not exactly a bath of it, but not just a touch either). I previously commented to Tim that the W-1429 expanded "Swing Easy" was poor. I hadn't played this version in years, literally. I pulled out the copy I remembered having poor sound, and upon replay it sounded pretty much like I remembered it (it is worth having to me though, for the DJTS on the cover). But I also have another copy of W-1429. I've actually never played it before. (I remember picking this up for $2- in decent shape and wet vacumming it, but didn't listen to it). I was intrigued that Tim has a good sounding copy of this version of "Swing Easy", albeit a UK digital master, but seemingly derived from the same echo altered W-1429 tapes. So, now I finally played this "other" copy (circa 1962-63). I'm glad I did. While it's not perfect, it wasn't too bad either. Not what I would turn to when I want to hear this album, but much better than my other copy of W-1429. This doesn't seem to be a "magic stamper" copy or anything, so this leads me to believe my poor sounding copy might just be defective , bad stamper, or whatever. So thanks Tim for sparking my interest to this LP - I learned something.

With regard to the Japanese W-587 LP again (Japanese Capitol ECJ-50065), please understand I am not stating that this LP is the model for how "SFYL" and "Swing Easy" should be reissued soundwise someday. It's not entirely perfect, but it is excellent, and is the best version released so far of these albums that I know of, which is why I recommend it. The "Swing Easy" side in particular, is far better here than any other issue I've heard. ("Swing Easy" as a recording, distinct from any particular issue/mastering of it, is an excellent recording, but "SFYL" is the better sounding of the two. Amazing sound on that one). It's also possible there may be "hot stamper" gray lael U.S. original W-587's out there that would be better than this Japanese LP, but as far as I know this is the best version (the JPN LP) available, and to me that's worth every penny I paid for it.

Also Tim, you mentioned you were thinking of buying "Concepts 2001" since it supposedly uses the correct tapes for "SFYL". First off, I don't want to discourage you from buying it if you don't already own most or all of Sinatra's Capitol concept albums. Once you own all these albums, you'll question how you ever lived without them before, really. (By going the box set route though, you do miss out on the artwork and other important things, but it is a quick, conveinent way to get all of Frank's Capitol concept albums). Sound: as I've said previously, I haven't heard this box, so some may feel it is foolish for me to make any comments about it. However, you should remember that this box was mastered with the same techniques as the individual Capitol EOTC CD's, so I wouldn't expect miracles with the sound. Supposedly the "Concepts 2001" 24-Bit master of "SFYL" is better that the 20-Bit EOTc individual CD, but it still must have fake-stereo widening which often gives some of that "vibrato/garbeled" side effect, NR, God knows what kind of EQ, etc. So even though it may be an improvement (which isn't saying much), and even if it uses the "RIGHT" tapes, it's more than likely to have the "WRONG" sound.

End of sermon for now.

MMM