Sinatra Capitol 20 & 24-Bit Masters

Okay, so the Concepts 2000 box may not be perfect - but what other options are there?

I mean, this detailed comparison of the various Sinatra lp and cd releases is fascinating and ear-opening, but short of finding the original '50's lps in mint condition - and providing that one has a turntable - what does one purchase if one wants to hear Sinatra in the best _available_ sound quality?

I picked up the Concepts box off of Ebay for around $80 (a steal, I know), and I'm generally very pleased with how it sounds - though I admit to not having much to compare it to. We can moan all we want about its faults, but is there anything out there that's better than this? (I wish there were, but that's not an option if one simply wants to hear the music). Any suggestions?

Ray

 

Thanks again MMM. I prefer the MFSL of 'Swing Easy' and 'SFYL' over the UK, but it was a decent pressing, echo and all.

I can't wait to read your comments about 'Where Are You'.

The 96 khz master and CD I made from the MFSL is in VERY heavy rotation with me right now. I think the MFSL beats the UK Digital LP on this one. Just my opinion.

I call it the 'Floating Frank LP' because the orchestra is so intense and gorgeous sounding and Frank just seems to float amongst the violins. The sound stage is WIDE on this one!

I have listened to 'Only The Lonley' and 'Where Are You' from both sets and the digital masters from the UK were made from the same analogs as the MFSL LPs for these two. All the tape dropouts match. Actually both LP sets were probably made within a year of each other.

I'd like to know if anyone has ever heard a steereo version of 'I Cover The Waterfront'. It is the only mono on 'Where Are You'

Ray,

I picked up the UK LP set (20 LPs, the MFSL set has only 16) on eBay for $100. Just happened upon it, waited on it, and I was the only bidder! Wooohoooo!

I already had the MFSL set. Somone said to me the MFSL was not as good as some of the reissues and I had an inexpensive opportunity to find out presented to me. So far I still like the MFSL set overall the best, but the UK Digital LP 'Only The Lonley' is king right now.

I really do have too much time on my hands occasionally, but most of the time I don't. MMM and I just love the man, so what can we say?

 

All,

on the old forum Steve pointed out that all of the stereo LPs contained in the MFSL box are made from the "right" tapes. Thus, they should be among the very best sounding versions around (except "Come Fly With Me", because of the bad tube in one of the mic preamps used for the stereo setup - there will never be a decent sounding stereo issue of this LP) However, this is not the case with the mono albums, which are made from EQ'd cutting masters with extra reverb added (if I remember correctly).

Arne

 

And I still forgot something last night, but realized after I left my computer. I made a comment about that Japanese "SFYL/Swing Easy" about it being not exactly perfect, even though it's the best version I know of, but didn't explain this. I should have noted that the bottom is a bit reticent, and there could be some more "warmth".

MMM

 

I should get around to posting my comments on the new EOTC CD of "Where Are You ?" tomorrow. To answer your question Tim about "I Cover the Waterfront". To the best of my knowledge this exists in mono only. If this is like Nat Cole's "Love Is the Thing" album (which has 2 songs in mono only), either the three-tracks were lost for this song, since it is not on the stereo LP's of "Where Are You ?" and may have gotten lost in the shuffle over the years. Or possibly, the three track machine(s) were not running properly at the beginning of the session where "I Cover the Waterfront" was recorded - if I remember correctly, that was the first song in the can that day. If this is true, then a three-track of "I Cover the Waterfront" never existed. Maybe Steve knows something about this?

"Concepts 2000" for $80- Ray? Even if it doesn't sound good, that seems to be money well spent. This seems to be a good idea - pick it up cheap so even if you're not satisfied with it, at least you didn't pay full price. And since you seem to be very happy with it, then I guess it was worth every penny. I take it you don't have a turntable?

Suggestions for CD only people? Uh - that's tough. The original 1987 CD of "Songs For Young Lovers/Swing Easy" wasn't too bad, and much more natural than the 20-Bit EOTC disc. I haven't heard the 1987 abridged and altered CD of "Wee Small Hours", so I can't comment. I don't like the 1991 CD - it's got stereo echo added to it - ridiculous. They kind of "filled out" Frank tonally here also. You've probably seen my comments on the EOTC version here, so you know I think it's basically rubbish. "Songs For Swingin' Lovers!" - interesting situation. They had the chance to get this one right in 1987 by using the correct non extra-echoed and EQ'd original 1956 masters instead of the 1962 echoed/EQ'd copy, but they screwed it up. There is some kind of weird stereo echo on it (in an attempt to fake stereo, IMO), so that ruins it. As I've said previously, I refuse to buy that 20-Bit EOTC "Swingin' Lovers!". I have the impression that it's the worst transfer of all the Capitol EOTC discs. There's a Mobile Fidelity Gold CD, out of print for years. It uses the "wrong" 1962 tapes, and it is not ideal, but to me it is the lesser of 4 evils so to speak, and is what I listen to when I want to hear this album. It could be a lot better. If you're looking for one, try to find an original "Ultradisc" instead of the "Ultradisc II". Not that they sound totally different, but the original "Ultradisc" is a little smoother, warmer, and a little better fleshed out. (Actually, I don't even own one, I recently borrowed an original from a friend to compare to my Ultradisc II - I have to give it back soon). "Close To You" - never heard an original CD at home. It's somewhat rare. I vaguely remember hearing one at a friend's house. I think I remember hearing stereo echo added to it, but I wouldn't swear to it. I've posted my comments about the EOTC previously in this thread. "A Swingin' Affair!" - the 1991 CD isn't ideal - not the correct tonality and somewhat thin. It's better than a bad LP (though good LP's are much better), and there's no fake stereo, NR, or other extraneous processing, so it should do in a pinch. As I said, it is somewhat thin sounding, but more natural overall to my ears than the 1998 EOTC CD. If I was going play a CD version and I had both sitting in front of me, I would choose the 1991 CD. "Where Are You ?" - I'll get to that tomorrow or the next day. "Come Fly With Me" - overall the 1987 CD is better than the EOTC, but it's not so hot either (I'm sure you could tell I'm just putting down here what's coming off the top of my head). To be honest with you, I never took this disc too seriously (I did have to re-listen to it though when I posted my comments on the 1998 CD - it's sound just isn't ingrained in me) - if I remember correctly that disc has one or two songs with Frank mixed sloppily off-center. It does have a slightly longer running time on "Brazil" than any other version ever issued. It ain't that great, but again, at least it doesn't have all the processing of the EOTC. It might be worth looking for a copy. "Only the Lonely". Didn't like the 1987 CD either. It too has "No-noise" or whatever they used to get rid of the hiss. The original stereo LP's are an experience onto themselves, that no CD version of this album or tracks taken from it for a comp., have come close to being as good (IMO). And from what I've read here, the 80's UK digital LP may be even better (haven't heard one). Even though it's not good, if you don't have this album already, I guess get the 1998 CD (by default) as the 1987 disc is not worth the trouble seeking out. "Come Dance With Me". The 1998 CD is better than the 1987 CD (IMO) - even with its flaws (I've posted my comments on it previously in this thread). "No One Cares" - I've never heard the 1991 CD, so I can't comment. I think ArneW made a comment about it on this thread not too long ago. I recently posted my comments on the 2002 EOTC CD in this thread. "Nice N' Easy" - haven't heard the 1987 CD. I've been told it sounds similar to the 1991 CD which I have. The 1991 CD is kind of washed out sounding, and thin if I remember correctly. Again, I've recently posted my comments on the 2002 EOTC in this thread. "Sinatra's Swingin' Session!" - the original 1987 CD, had a somewhat metallic sound to it - nowhere near as natural as an original LP and did not have the correct tonality at all. Also has narrowing of the soundstage - God only knows why (this recording has no "hole in the middle" to try and fill in. I don't remember it having any extraneous processing though - it this respect it is better than the 1998 EOTC CD. However, this disc isn't that good, so IMO is not worth the trouble seeking out on the collectors market in favor of the 1998 CD. Sorry, I know this doesn't help anyone, but I really don't like either one. This is really a demonstration quality recording. Neither of the CD's does it justice. The old stereo LP's are the best choice, but that doesn't help anyone without a turntable. Sorry. The 1991 "Come Swing With Me!" - I remember this disc sounding compressed - why this would be done I have no idea, but it seemed to have less dynamic range than my LP. Strange. The sound of Frank's voice seemed colored - like a "cupped" sound. Never took it too seriously. The 2002 EOTC overall was poor (though it wasn't compressed). I've posted my comments about this disc previously in this thread - I actually have more to say about this disc again, but it will have to wait. "Point of No Return" - never heard the 1991 CD. I'll post my comments about the 2002 CD hopefully sometime next week. I haven't heard the British 21-CD box - others have made a few comments here though.

Hope this helps a little.

MMM

 

Yeah, for $80 for the Concepts box I can't complain too much!

A friend recently came by with several of his EOTC discs and we compared them to the Concepts box. I don't claim to have golden ears and I have a hard time judging such things analytically/objectively - I can cetainly hear differences on my SET-based system, but i often have a difficult time coming to any conclusion as to which version i prefer.

In very general terms, the individual cds (whether EOTC or the earlier ones) had more added echo than the versions in the Concepts box. To a greater or lesser extent they were a bit lusher sounding, with the Concepts discs drier in comparison. Supposedly, this is more like the original lps, but as someone else here (Feinstein?) stated, what sounds more "correct" is likely due to which lps you grew up with. There were also some soundstage differences as well, but you really had to listen for them. Again, while i could hear a difference between the older and newer remasters, I really couldn't tell you my preference.

I haven't had a chance to compare the Concepts discs to the few original Sinatra lps that i have. It would probably be irrelevent since most of the lps i have are mono versions - which i got just to be different

Ray

 

MMM and others,

AWESOME POSTS. I am speechless....

 

Something was bothering me about my comments on the 1987 CD of "Sinatra's Swingin' Session!!!" as I left work after I posted. I gave it a quick listen when I got home (ouch!!!) and came to the library to edit my comments on it. So if anyone has already read my last post, you may want to re-read it. (Also tidied up a few other things). Thanks again to all who read and contribute to this thread. Still more to come.

MMM

 

Thanks so much Steve. I don't have that disc. I will try to get one though. I just, mistakenly I guess, figured it would have similar sound to the other Larry Walsh CD's, and would not be worth buying if it was going to sound very similar to what I already own. I'll try to find one - can't wait.

MMM

 

'This Is Sinatra' and 'This Is Sinatra Volume Two' are both in this UK Digital LP set I picked up. I'll have to give them a spin Steve and see how they sound.

 

Onto the recently released EOTC CD of "Where Are You ?" (and a few other things).

The usual EQ pattern (highs rolled - some boost below the rolloff) is used here to varying degrees on virtually all tracks. Although NR was used, some noise is still often fairly audible (no I'm not complaining about hearing tape hiss), partially due to the tapes used for this issue (more on this later). If you listen to the tonality of the hiss leftover (don't laugh at me too hard), you'll plainly hear the Eq-ing done. There is some of that "widening" audible on Frank virtually throughout also - the "widening" is usually noticeable as Frank exerts more force.

Individual problems: "The Night We Called It A Day" has a slight electronic tinge, slowing the "pace" and natural "flow" of the music, probably due to heavier NR. This also seems to occur in "Lonely Town", but perhaps to a lesser extent - this electronic tinge becomes noticeable when the orchestra is playing (relatively) softer. Also on "The Night We Called It A Day", often the sound of the orchestra seems somewhat deadened when they're not playing too loud, although Frank's "forwardness" (more on this later) here tends to mask this somewhat. On "Laura", the upper bass is somewhat too prominent. There is some opacity around this region, seemingly from this boost, although with the mix used here (again, more on this later), mostly everything above this cuts through and has not been obscured from this (although the usual EQ pattern is still in use here, with the highs somewhat rolled, so therefore the highs are somewhat obscured, but due to the rolloff, not the opacity I mentioned in the upper bass region - don't fall asleep on me). There also seems to be a touch too much upper bass on "Lonely Town". I'm not sure if this is also affecting Frank's vocal on this track, but I here a touch of nasality on Frank on "Lonely Town".

However, the biggest fault on this disc (IMO) is something independent of the mastering. They used the wrong tapes. I would think it would be obvious to anyone who's heard a Capitol stereo LP of this album, that this CD uses the 1959 two-track stereo mix, not a remix from the three-tracks. While this "old" mix may seem "impressive" sounding to some, it has a forwardness to it (orchestra and Frank) that I suspect is not on the three-tracks (at least not to this extent). It seems that when Capitol did this mix to issue "Where Are You ?" as a stereo LP in 1959, they added some upper mids/lower treble, cut bass, and added too much echo for this mix. Frank's voice doesn't sound as natural as it should and is also a bit thin. (Bob to some extent corrected this "thinness" in Frank on this new CD. In the past I have criticized adding "body" to Frank, but here since the mix had a thinned out (tonally) Frank, it's not so bad). This mix does sound interesting, and does have some of the "floating" quality mentioned by Tim previously in this thread, but it's not what this album could (should) be. I'll bet the three-tracks' sound has a lot in common with Nat Cole's "Love Is the Thing" (same room - Capitol Studio A, same engineer - John Kraus, seemingly the same microphone setup - or very similar, and recorded only about 4 months apart in the somewhat experimental days of stereo at Capitol).

Anyway, the sound I heard as soon as this CD started immediately "gave away" which tapes were used. Another thing that told me which tapes were used was how on "I'm A Fool to Want You" Frank is slightly off-center to the right, just like on my stereo LP's. To further verify that the two-track was used I listened for dropouts (Tim - you beat me in posting about listening for dropouts, although I had already done it before you posted. You're thinking the right way IMO). Sure enough, all the dropouts on my stereo LP match here exactly, plus a few more and a few instances of some other audible tape damage, perhaps use to heavy usage. I seriously doubt the three-tracks have all these dropouts - I don't notice all these on the previous CD, which sounds remixed from the three-tracks. This CD is not perfect, but at least the right tapes were used. The following thread from elsewhere on Steve site discusses something that relates to this well - (flawed original stereo mix, and improper modern remix from the three-tracks on the "old" Capitol CD for "Where Are You ?) - but it's about Nat Cole's "Love Is the Thing".


http://www.netassoc.net/dougspage/HoffSpecifics.htm


The thing most interesting to me was how Bob was able to use "widening", noticeable on Frank, without access to his vocal track from the three-track. I didn't think this would be possible until I heard this disc. While the stereo LP's, which as I said are derived from the same mix, have some "bleed" of Frank to the sides a bit (part of the "floating" quality I guess), Frank is much more focused and stable on the LP's. Adding this "widening" which makes Frank less focused makes no sense (IMO).

Now, someof you may remember the fiasco I made trying to figure out which tapes were used for the EOTC CD of "Come Swing With Me!". It did not sound like dry & flat (non-EQ'd) tapes were used for it, so I thought a second three-track possibly existed that had some echo, EQ, etc. already on it. There were too many little "things" on that disc I was hearing that I also heard on my stereo LP that seemed impossible (to me) to duplicate EXACTLY in a modern remix. So I figured there was a second 3-track that had these "things" done to it and Bob used that since at the time I wrote my comments I didn't think it was possible to perform this "widening" on a stereo recording without using the three-tracks to thave access to the seperate vocal track. But Steve highly doubted that a second set of three-tracks existed anymore, so I was quite confused until now. It seems to me,after listening to this EOTCCD of "Where Are You ?" with "widening" performed while using two-track tapes (instead of the three-tracks), that an old (original stereo mix) two-track stereo tape was used for the EOTC CD of "Come Swing With Me!".

MMM

 

And I forgot something else about "Where Are You ?" - nothing to do wit sound/mastering/etc. "Autumn Leaves" in stereo is an alternate take. I would guess the mono is the correct take, as that's the one originally released - so I would think that's the one Frank approved.

Steve - I picked up a "Capitol Collector's Series" Sinatra. Thanks for the recommendation. It sounds good. Not perfect - could be more lush and smooth, needs more "BREATH-O-LIFE", etc. But the songs do sound like pure (not processed), flat transfers(or very close to it). The mono tracks were nice. Didn't care for the remixed "Nice N' Easy" though - peculiar souding echo, which sounds like digital echo instead of from the chambers. Also somewhat "washed-out" sounding - not "ablaze in all the tonal color" it should have. I didn't compare them, but it sounded similar to the version on the 1991 CD of the "Nice N' Easy" album (if I remember correctly). What I found most interesting about this disc was how similar it sounds to the 1990 "Capitol Years" 3-CD set, but at the same time betters it (on the tracks it shares). While some tracks are more of an improvement than others on this "Collectors Series" CD in comparison, in general it is somewhat better "fleshed out", has better sense of depth, and more natural sound to the original echo. A track that shows off well the difference in how the echo is better reproduced here is "All the Way". On the box set, the echo just sounds like some "spatially flat" thingy stuck on there, but on the "Collectors Series" CD, it decays natually into space. This may be due to the fact that the box set is "no-noised" (but not too heavily) and the "Collector's Series" CD is not. Although these improvements relative to the box set are not night and day differences, when all added up are worthwhile and do make for a better experience (IMO). Definetly try to pick one of these up everybody. It is the best Capitol Sinatra CD (transfer-wise) I own overall.

MMM

 

Thanks Steve.

MMM

 

Hello all,

I should have my comments with regard to the EOTC "Point of No Return" ready soon (maybe tomorrow).

Altough I have commented previously that I refuse to buy the EOTC CD of "Songs For Swingin' Lovers!" and therefore have not heard it. However, I do not want to ignore it entirely, so I am posting a thread that relates to it below. It is a thread to "Customer Reviews" on Amazon.com of the EOTC CD of "SFSL". It has about 40 or 50 reviews within it, so you'll have to skip back and forth between the various pages within it to see all the reviews. I think there are 2 or 3 fairly positive comments regarding the sound of this issue, but for the most part when the sound quality of this issue is mentioned, the comments are not positive at all. Some of these are actually pretty funny. Enjoy!

MMM


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...rev_next/102-6868899-6190517?show=-submittime

 

Onto the recently released EOTC CD of "Point of No Return". The old two track stereo mix is used for this issue, not a modern remix from the three-track. although the old stereo mix was used, I'm still hearing some "widening" on Frank, even though these tapes (obviously) don't give access to Frank's vocal on its own (not that this widening should be performed at all, even if the three-tracks were used). Generally, there's not much of it (the widening), but it's there to varying degrees on at least half the original "Point of No Return" songs here, such as "I'll Remember April", & "A Million Dreams Ago" (as in the past I have chosen not to comment on the transfer of the "bonus tracks"). The usual EQ pattern (for this series of discs) is present - highs rolled, accompanied by some boost below the rolloff, with the usual problems due to it. Some tracks suffer worse than others - none are correct. I also hear some "body" EQ'd in affecting Frank. On most tracks on this issue (to varying degrees) Frank has a nasality to him. Some of this nasality seems to be on the actual recordings on some tracks (or at least the old two-track mix)., but it's more noticeable on this CD than previous issues I've heard of "Point of No Return" due to the mastering. Some of this seems to be due to the "body" EQ'd in on this issue, making any nasality that may be on the source on a given song more apparent, while sometimes part of it just comes from the EQ in this mastering alone. Also, the "widening" on some tracks does not help this problem either. Noise reduction is performed throughout. On "As Time Goes By", there is audible tape damage from 1:17-1:19, and it sort of "cuts out" quickly for a split second at 1:17, I guess from a dropout. "Somewhere Along the Way" has been a problem soundwise (IMO) on all the LP's I've heard. Frank seems to be less distinct as a soloist standing in space out from the orchestra than the other songs, and the highs seem relatively less than any of the other songs. (Hopefully, whatever problems I'm hearing are not on the 3-track master, just the 2-track. As I've stated in a previous post here, I haven't heard the 1991 CD, which I'm almost certain was remixed from the 3-tracks, so I don't know if the 3-track is flawed on this song also. - It's possible though - "Somewhere Along the Way" was the first song recorded on that night and any problems may not have been corrected until the next song. Since this was a contractual obligation album for Sinatra to Capitol, I understand Frank wasn't in the mood for this album to do 22 takes of a song that he might normally have felt needed it in another situation, so it is possible they couldn't correct whatever problems may exist with the sound on this song since there probably weren't enough takes done to give them a chance - this being the first song of the night. (More on this album - performance wise - later). However, "Somewhere Along the Way" is really killed on this issue. The highs are rolled off a lot and Frank seems to be even less distinct in the presentation (meaning how he "stands" out in front of the orchestra) - on this issue he seems evevn more "smooshed" with the orchestra - pretty much the problems that existed on the LP's but compounded quite a bit. This "compounding" of these problems seems to be due to the EQ-ing done on this issue - "body" added and highs rolled. The boost below the rolloff doesn't (and can't) restore "detail" lost after rolling off the highs, although it does make the strings sound worse. It is not possible to restore "detail" lost on frequencies that are chopped off by boosting other different frequencies. A (very) simplified explanation of this: if you cut "X", boosting "Y" does not bring back "X". This is only FAKING IT, which results in unnatural sound, and is ridiculous (IMO).

"Point of No Return" as a Sinatra performance - although a few songs here do sound like Frank was just running though them to finish the album, such as this version of "These Foolish Things" which sounds foolish, especially in comparison to his masterpiece 1945 version on Columbia, there are still some great performances here - especially "when the World Was Young", "I'll See You Again", "There Will Never Be Another You", and my favorite here "I'll Remember April", which are all classic Sinatra.

MMM

 

I should get to "Classic Sinatra" soon.

In the meantime, this thread I found in the "Lounge" section here relates to all this.

MMM

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1203

 

Oh it was great - especially for this thread.

MMM

 

My Classic Sinatra sits on the shelf...gathering dust!

Are there really THAT many people who like the end result of a disc that has been given the no-noise treatment? I think side by side comparisons would have MOST people prefering the one without "sonic death".

 

Okay, onto "Classic Sinatra". I have a lot to comment on this disc - I'll only post the first part tonight - I don't have enought time to to it all tonight - hopefully I'll get to the rest tomorrow. Tonight I will discuss the tracks on "Classic Sinatra" that are also on Capitol EOTC CD's which I have already discussed here. For these tracks I will comment on how these songs sound on "Classic Sinatra" in comparison to the way they sound in their EOTC form, since I have already commented on these songs and/or the albums they originally came from. Tommorrow (hopefullY) I will comment on the rest of the tracks on "Classic Sinatra" from scratch (so to speak), including the three "Songs For Swingin' Lovers!" tracks here since I did not previously comment on the EOTC CD of "SFSL" personally.


"I Get A Kick Out Of You" - Very similar to the 20-Bit EOTC of "Songs For Young Lovers", but without the boosted bottom end (which also spilled into Frank's voice) added onto the EOTC "SFYL" - the same hard, agressive sound, with the top rolled and other frequencies below the rolloff boosted a lot, giving off an unnatural tone overall. It has that same bit of distortion at :25 -also the same echo (listen especially @ :51-:53) which makes me not believe for a second that the correct masters are used for the "SFYL" tracks - sounds like the tampered (circa 1960) W-1432 tapes.

"They Can't Take That Away From Me" - Sounds like the 20-Bit "SFYL" EOTC but has less lower frequencies (in the same manner as "I Get A Kick...", described above) in comparison to the EOTC "SFYL" - all the same distortion from the EOTC "SFYL" on this track is intact here on "Classic Sinatra" - THERE SHOULD NOT BE ANY DISTORTION AUDIBLE WHATSOEVER, but Frank's voice on this track is littered with it here & there throughout this song (including some less noticeable moments that the two discs share that I didn't post the exact timings of originally in my comments for the 20-Bit "SFYL" - I told you I lost count of the problems back then).

"My Funny Valentine" - This too sounds like the 20-Bit "SFYL" master, but with less lower frequencies - in the same manner as "I Get A Kick...", described above.

"In the Wee Small Hours Of the Morning" - sounds like the version from the 20-Bit EOTC of "In the Wee Small Hours", but with less lower freqencies - the difference between the two discs are in a similar manner to the comparison described above for "I Get A Kick..."

"Oh! Look At Me Now" & "Night and Day" - both sound thinner and maybe slightly brighter than how these tracks sound on the 20-Bit EOTC of "A Swingin' Affair!" (although this slight apparent increase in brightness may just be an effect from it being thinner).

"Come Fly With Me" - Sounds like there's some more rolloff on "Classic Sinatra" on top than the 20-Bit EOTC CD of "Come Fly With Me" and a bit harsher sound at the same time in comparison - Frank may be a bit thinner here also, but that may just be an effect of it being a bit harsher sounding.

"One For My Baby" - horrid, electronic sound as on the 20-Bit EOTC CD of "Frank Sinatra Sings For Only the Lonely", but slightly more rolled off on top here on "Classic Sinatra".

"Come Dance With Me" - Sounds like the 20-Bit EOTC CD of "Come Dance With Me", but a bit duller in comparison.

"Nice 'N Easy" - In comparison to the 24-Bit EOTC CD of "Nice 'N Easy", the version on "Classic Sinatra" has less bass and is a bit duller, but otherwise has similar sound.

The rest will have to wait.

MMM

 

Now onto the tracks I am not comparing to the EOTC CD's and am commenting on from "scratch":


"I've Got the World On a String" - sounds like there's some rolloff on top with some boost below the rolloff, and it's somewhat agressive & harsh sounding. Also noise (all the tracks on this disc are).

"Young At Heart" - The top is rolled with some boost below the rolloff, and it's somewhard hard sounding. No amount of phony highs from trying to fake them by boosting the upper mids are going to bring it back to sounding natural. This EQ'ing lends a muffled sound to the drums here, the flute doesn't sound very good, and ruins the presentation of the strings. The boost below the rolloff does not restore "detail" on the strings - it actually obscures it here, since after the top was rolled off, the region boosted now sticks out too much. This boosted region now overpowers the strings as a whole and it makes it harder to properly follow the part of the arrangement the strings are playing when they are playing loud (for ex: the middle instrumental section from around 1:47 - 2:10). And don't expect proper tonality on Frank either.

"Somebody To Watch Over Me" - The highs are rolled with some boost below the rolloff, with a slight forwardness due to it. There are sctatchy noises in the left channel at :32 - :33, and more prominently at 1:26 - 1:28.

"The Lady Is a Tramp" - There is fake-stereo widening and NR used here. The highs are rolled with a boost below the rolloff. It's somewhat agressive with a somewhat unnatural tone to Frank - a touch nasal. Please compare this to the "bonus track" of "The Lady Is a Tramp" on the 1991 Larry Walsh mastered CD of "A Swingin' Affair!" if you have it and "Classic Sinatra" - that 1991 disc is much more natural sounding.

"Witchcraft" - There is fake-stereo widening and NR used here. The usual EQing of rolling the highs accompanied by a boost below the rolloff is present. Frank sounds somewhat unnatural, and he's strangely somewhat "hollow" sounding at times (this may not me the correct term - I'm was struggling to find a word to describe what I was hearing). The bass has a peculiar lack of warmth and resonance, especially for an old Capitol recording from the 1950's. Beginning at 1:18 (and more noticeable a few seconds later) it sounds to me like Bob Norberg starts cranking the volume. If you have this disc and the "Collectors Series" CD, please compare the two. Let us all know what you think.

"All the Way" - The highs are rolled, with frequencies below the rolloff boosted. The noise reduction seems pretty heavy here - seems to slow the natural "flow" of the music when the orchestra is playing (relatively) slowly.

"Put Your Dreams Away" - The highs rolled/boost below rolloff EQ-ing is present, there is noise reduction, and a ridiculous amount of fake-stereo widening on Frank with too much echo (this is here in stereo to begin with). I have a mono acetate (my prize possession) of the Capitol version of "Put Your Dreams Away" cut the day after the session - not in mint condition, but the surface noise for the most part is softly in the background and is not distracting. More importantly, the grooves are not worn - no distortion. It has a naturalness sorely lacking in every commercial version I've ever heard.
BTW - The following is all about this song as a recording, distinct from the sound of any particular issue of it). I may be wrong about this, but this relatively early Capitol stereo recording (recorded between "Come Fly With Me" and the "Only the Lonely" albums to give a point of reference) does not sound like different microphone setups were used for the mono and stereo versions (normally during this time at Capitol there were), although it does sound like different mono and three-track tape decks were running at the time of the recording. It sounds like the "live" mono mix John Kraus did as it the song was being recorded has less audible cymbals than every different than every different stereo mix (3) I've heard - Steve, do you know if I'm correct about all this? Even if I'm wrong please tell us Steve - I won't feel bad if I'm incorrect, really.

Now onto the "Songs For Swingin' Lovers!" tracks on "Classic Sinatra". "Songs For Swingin' Lovers!" is my favorite album by anyone, and it includes my favorite song by anyone - Sinatra's original 1956 version of "I've Got You Under My Skin" - THE BEST - THE MEANING OF LIFE. If the master tape of every song ever made was being thrown into a volcano, I wouldn't hesitate for a split-second on which tape to rescue if I could only choose one.
I'm going to discuss all three "Songs For Swingin' Lovers!" that are on "Classic Sinatra" together - "I've Got You Under My Skin", "You Make Me Feel So Young", & "It Happened In Monterey". The sound of these tracks as they appear on "Classic Sinatra" is pretty simple to describe - poor. It starts off by using the EQ'd/echoed, flawed 1962 tapes with that "peakiness" to Frank's voice - (well, actually almost everything since it's mono), chops off the highs, adds fake-stereo widening including on these tracks some frequency dividing - use headphones - (not to the extent they did in the old days of using this technique, but there is more bass on the left and more upper frequencies on the right), and noise reduction is used. Very sad, soundwise and (IMO) not what Nelson Riddle, John Palladino, and most importantly Frank Sinatra intended.

In a related note, when I was asked a few weeks ago for the best CD versions of this or that of Sinatra's Capitol recordings, I forgot something, basically since it's not a concept album. If you want to hear the best sounding CD of "I've Got You Under My Skin", it's on "The Capitol Years" 3-CD set. Yes, it's not as warm, sweet, and lush as I would want it mastered (in a perfect world), and it is (seemingly gently used) Sonic Solutions, but it is the best version out there that I've heard, bar none. It uses the correct 1956 original master (unlike the MOFI "SFSL" which I sort-of recommended, albeit half-heartedly), with none of the somewhat (IMO) peculiar sounding EQ as on the 1987 CD of "SFSL" (which also had a bit of fake-stereo echo added). The sound of "I've Got You Under My Skin" on "The Capitol Years" is probably the closest CD approximation of the master issued so far, and is much more natural sounding than the two "SFSL" CD's I just mentioned, and especially in comparison to the version here on "Classic Sinatra", which is poor. As I've stated a few times previously in this thread, I haven't heard the 1998 EOTC CD of "SFSL" (and from what I understand about the sound on this disc I don't want to), so obviously I can't compare it to this version on "Classic Sinatra". Steve, do you agree that this is the best sounding CD of "I've Got You Under My Skin" out there?

MMM