Dismiss Notice
We are making some updates and reconfigurations to our server. Apologies for any downtime or slow forum loading now or within the next week or so. Thanks!

Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: Come Fly with Me (recorded 1957)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Nov 11, 2009.

  1. Loud Listener

    Loud Listener Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Re-recorded? That's funny...
     
  2. SinatraFan

    SinatraFan Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the reviews, Matt. Interesting to read about how these albums were received when originally released.

    I want a copy of that re-recording.:laugh:
     
  3. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Ralph Gleason's review is excellent, which is to be expected.

    At first (from reading the Duophonic comments), I thought Chester Stanton would have appreciated the "black box" treatment the album got years later, but then read he thought the album was re-recorded for stereo! I guess given the previous years of re-recording stuff for hi-fi/stereo it's not totally unexpected for someone to consider that being done, but I don't understand how he couldn't hear the content was the same as the mono LP. Maybe the totally different sound and lousy mix threw him off? Or he didn't listen to it at all?

    I *think* "Duophonic" (using that name) wasn't being issued until 1961/62, so I'm not sure what he's talking about re Capitol being lax...
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013
  4. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Cool storefront display, as pictured in Billboard, Feb. 17, 1958:
    CapitolDisplay021758.jpg
     
    paulmock and MMM like this.
  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    I was playing my Capitol CD of COME FLY WITH ME which has the fine mastering by cracker-jack engineer Larry Walsh (who so expertly covered up the flaws in the stereo tape that they said "couldn't be done") when I felt like playing the mono close-miked version so I pulled out my old LP.

    Does the mono LP have different edits of SOME of the vocal performances on it? Sounds like it and it seems like I've asked this question before but I can't remember, sorry.

    Anyone know, experts?

    Is the MoFi mono version out yet?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2013
  6. ShockControl

    ShockControl Bon Vivant and Raconteur!

    Location:
    Lotus Land
    Yes, it is at least a partially different take. I've noticed this also.
     
    McLover likes this.
  7. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    One that I'm aware of is a longer fadeout on "Brazil" on the Walsh CD (not a different edit). Offhand, I can't recall any difference in edits. I think I remember the question being asked before, and the consensus was that perceived differences are due to the different mike placements.

    No: Eight Upcoming Sinatra/Capitol Titles on MFSL LP & SACD (pt2)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2013
  8. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    Thanks, Bob.
     
  9. James_S888

    James_S888 Forum Resident

    For the record :)
    my copy is
    D1 Side one
    N7 Side two

    So there are low D stampers around
     
    MMM likes this.
  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Screen shot 2013-10-09 at 2.30.59 AM.jpg
    Holy cow, that's ugly.
     
  11. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    ^^^ Thst belonged to an audiophile. It was a stereo record, and he turned it into an ashtray after hearing the distortion in one channel.
     
    MLutthans likes this.
  12. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    That looks more like it was used while smoking an old Chesterfield.
     
  13. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    I have some neat FS Reprise labels that have been laminated and turned into coasters.
     
  14. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Once again, Matt is "spot on" with his ratings. I just acquired a copy of the "Silver Box" edition of this album and it is damn-near flawless. It has the best sound by far of the tunes with the bad tube. And Mr. S is a tad more "p front" with his vocals making him almost as if hen were in-the-room. I thought the Dell LP was beautiful (and it IS!) but this is the finest stereo copy I have ever heard!
     
    aoxomoxoa likes this.
  15. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
    Bob Belvedere, MMM and DLant like this.
  16. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    WOW! Junior has lost a ton of weight!!! Good for him if he lost in in a healthy way. I know he had prostate cancer but they caught it early. That is a really, really good interview. Thanks for posting it, Bob.
     
    MMM likes this.
  17. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    DAMN! I wish we had more time to edit these things when we post. I corrected them above. And I DID use spell check. :realmad:
     
    DLant likes this.
  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Yep, Paul, I really, really dig the overall tone on that MFSL LP. The Walsh CD is probably just as good, but in different ways -- they have very different sound -- and one thing the Walsh CD has going for it that no other stereo versions do is that it does a good job of dodging (via digital workstation "trickery pokery") much of the distortion on those tracks that had a bad preamp in the mixing console (or whatever the latest verdict is as to what went wrong technically). Both (to my ears) are "tops" in their own way, with the tonal advantage (for me) going to the 1983 MFSL LP. I'm really happy you tracked down a copy. :)
     
    aoxomoxoa likes this.
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    I'm on a COME FLY WITH ME kick now after watching Frankie Jr.'s thoughts about Billy May.

    The MFSL album (which I've never heard) is just a cut from the old Capitol two track reduction, right? I have four Capitol stereo LP's of this and they all have way too much echo and funky filtering to try and mask the distortion overload.

    The Walsh CD is a remix that Larry and Pete Welding created, right?

    You sure the MFSL is better than the remix CD, Matt?
     
  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Well, like I've said in old, buried posts, they are very DIFFERENT but both EXCELLENT. I'm very strongly a "tone" guy, and I really like both the overall tone and the vocal tone (specifically) on the MFSL. I think it's the best Frank's voice has sounded on this album. Larry's excellent CD has vocal tone that is a little less warm -- still extremely good -- and has some great tricks done in ProTools (or SonicSolutions or whatever Capitol was using in 1987) to do things like make the left-channel strings temporarily "fake stereo" to cover up the distortion that's going on in the right channel, and it's quite effective. (Larry did some really creative stuff to get around the problems -- kudos to him on that.)

    So, in the end, it's kind of a fielder's choice. Both are truly excellent, and both have pros and cons. Warm tone? Get the MFSL. Less distortion (in some spots) and more crystalline tone? Get the Walsh. Both are winners.

    Clips are here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1958_-_Come_Fly_with_Me_Stereo.html
     
    rxcory, bozburn and hodgo like this.
  21. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Steve, I don't have the "finely tuned" ears of most of my colleagues here, but I happily repeat that this MFSL copy is as close to Mr. S being "in the room" with me as I have experienced with any other copy...including the excellent Walsh and Dell copies. Mr. S has very little reverb on him and perhaps that is what brings him out in front of the orchestra more here. I, too, am on a CFWM kick now and will play the MFSL copy and the most recent 180g mono back-to-back this evening for ****s and giggles.:p

    Oh... and whatever it is, I find myself not cringing where I usually used to cringe when listening to the stereo distortions. So that truly makes this a winner.
     
  22. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    Hmmm, how you are describing it, might not be from the old mix. Interesting. I'll have to check it out.
     
  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    Just wanted to mention that the great Larry Walsh did not have or use PROTOOLS or SONIC or anything to fix the distorted stuff in the 80's. Too early for that. He did it all in the analog mode!

    A great achievement.
     
    aoxomoxoa, DLant and paulmock like this.
  24. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Watch...you'll listen to it and come back and tell me I'm full of hot air! :uhhuh:
     
  25. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Well, by whatever means, Larry Walsh really did a nice clean-up job on that title. It's subtle yet effective, and never calls attention to itself.
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine