Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: Come Fly with Me (recorded 1957)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Nov 11, 2009.

Page 2 of 37
  1. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    Zing is a good word.

    Here's a short clip from my 9 o'clock stereo LP going into the Walsh 1987 CD.

    Between the two, I prefer the Walsh. It just...Zings.

    http://www.box.net/shared/b42dizlilx
     
    Greg1954, Nov 13, 2009
    #26
  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    It is kinda fun, at least if you are a simpleton like me. :wave:

    I would like to propose our next two forensic subjects:

    1. A Jolly Christmas (since it's that time of year, almost, and I'd rather not be doing that title come March); and
    2. Come Dance with Me (since it's the other title to be recently released by Capitol on vinyl in the US)

    I already have:

    Christmas: MFSL, and what I *THINK* is the Walsh mastering. The matrix on the disc is 077774832922 1-1-5 (purchased in Clearwater, FL, 12/98).

    Dance: MFSL, Walsh CD, EMI/Toshiba stereo Japanese LP. Plus, DJ Wilbur already sent along the UK CD and the 9:00 mono.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Nov 13, 2009
    #27
  3. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    Capitol made tampered (echo/eq) dubs in the early 60's of the mono only albums though A SWINGIN' AFFAIR!. They didn't do this with the mono versions of the albums that were also recorded in stereo. They also didn't do this with A JOLLY CHRISTMAS that I'm aware of, but that had a good deal echo to begin with. All the ones that were messed were actually recorded prior to 1957 and had *relatively* dry mono mixes.
     
    MMM, Nov 13, 2009
    #28
    McLover likes this.
  4. floweringtoilet

    floweringtoilet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Providence, RI, USA
    Thank you Martin. This is very helpful information.
     
    floweringtoilet, Nov 14, 2009
    #29
  5. Raylinds

    Raylinds Resident Lake Surfer

    Location:
    Candlewood Lake, CT
    Martin, are the untampered with versions only available on gray labels, or are the 9:00 rainbows good, too?
    Thanks
     
    Raylinds, Nov 14, 2009
    #30
  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    If you are bored and have any samples to share for the next two albums on the "samples page,"....

    Here's what I have (via my own collection and submissions from forum members) for JOLLY CHRISTMAS and COME DANCE WITH ME:

    Jolly Christmas - I have 12:00 mono; MFSL; Walsh CD. Still looking for: Norberg CD, gray label mono, and any other variations, including re-issues as "The Frank Sinatra Christmas Album," etc.

    Come Dance with Me: I have Japanese 80's LP; MFSL; Walsh CD; Capitol Years Walsh CD tracks; UK "Dell" CD; 9:00 mono; Norberg CD; UK mono LP; 12:00 stereo Still looking for: the new Capitol LP, 1980s "Dell" LP, 9:00 stereo, UK "20 Great Tracks" CD, 70s pressings, UK Millennium LP (or Centenary, or whatever it was), and any other variations/re-issues, etc.,

    Thanks to everybody who has contributed!

    Matt
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
    MLutthans, Nov 14, 2009
    #31
  7. floweringtoilet

    floweringtoilet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Providence, RI, USA
    Matt, I think you summed it up pretty well. Here is my take:

    1. Definitely some weird reverb issues here. Not very good.
    2. Better, dryer, fuller sound. Some reverb, but less and equally in each channel. A little dull though. Brass lacks bite.
    3. Similar to #2. EQ may be slightly different. Not sure if it's better or worse to be honest.
    4. Pretty good. Brass has a little more bite to it. Definitely brighter than earlier clips, but in a good way.
    5. Yes, it sounds dull, especially right after the brighter EQ of #3.
    6. Maybe a little too much reverb. It makes it sound less direct, a little confused sounding. Not bad.
    7. Not good. I know this mix. It's mono, and it's not very good.
    8. Pretty good.
    9. Okay, a little dull sounding though.
    10. Yes, this is as bad as the other mono clip. Not a good mono mix at all.

    I have some idea what at least a couple of these are. This is a similar situation to Come Fly With Me where the mono mixes are lacking. I think Billy May's charts really need stereo to breathe, and have that certain sense of fun that May has at his best. I think people will be surprised at what they like. I will say this, this was the only Norberg EOTC remaster that I chose to keep over the older Walsh mastered CD. I prefer the versions that are EQ'd a little brighter. That is not usually the case, but it serves the music here, IMO.

    I'll be interested to know which one the new LP is.
     
    floweringtoilet, Nov 16, 2009
    #32
  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    I have split this topic off from the CAPITOL 180g reissue thread. Let's keep posting....in the proper place, so it's less confusing.

    Thanks,
    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Nov 23, 2009
    #33
  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Hey, Sinatra guys: I have found a real mystery surrounding the title track to this LP. Can somebody send me any of the following?

    1. Rainbow 12:00 USA LP
    2. Later (Green, Orange, Yellow label) USA LP
    3. British LP pressings, any vintage

    Once I get this figured out, there will be a significant update to the samples page.

    Thank you, Sinatraphiles!

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Dec 6, 2009
    #34
  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Matthew,

    What kind of a mystery? Alt. take or something?




    All, how did the ORIGINAL stereo mix handle the distortion on some of the songs? Did they filter it or what?
     
    Steve Hoffman, Dec 6, 2009
    #35
  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Potential remix and/or edit. If anybody has a 12:00 or later STEREO pressing that they could share (title track), I think I can put the mystery to bed.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Dec 7, 2009
    #36
  12. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    They added some more echo than was necessary to my ears, and, based on the sound of the Capitol stereo LP's I've heard, including a couple of reissues, dulled out the tone thoughout. They also mixed the orchestra a little too low to my ears.
     
    MMM, Dec 8, 2009
    #37
    McLover likes this.
  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    That dullness was especially done on the right channel where the bass was rolled off to the extreme AND the highs were muted, so all the trumpets sound like they are playing into pillows. Not a pleasant sound at all, to be sure!

    On a related topic, I've put some significant updates on this page, and one festering question that I just can't answer. I'd love to get some other brains involved! Please go to the link and have a careful listen.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Dec 8, 2009
    #38
  14. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    That's interesting, Matt, and would make sense for why the Mobile Fidelity here is a lot better than any old Capitol stereo LP I've heard of this.

    As for THE GREAT YEARS, I think I played mine once or twice years ago, and don't remember too much about it, besides lots of Duophonic on the stereo version (which is all I have). I'll give mine a listen when I can, re mix on these songs there.

    Are you sure the orange label sample you have up comes from the remix? I played these clips last night, and I remember it not sounding so great, like the first mix, and reminded me of the other reissues I've heard - IIRC, an SM yellow label, and the "SY" prefix copy.

    Re the MFP disc, it seems to me they took Larry's mix and removed the fingersnap.
     
    MMM, Dec 8, 2009
    #39
  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Well, it's got that fingersnap in there. I posted a (brief) sample just above Tom Hanks on this page.

    Yes, but.....how? I know that a lot of stuff is possible with digital processing these days, but the snap actually happens prior to the end of the word "cheer," and on the 20 CLASSIC TRACKS version, it sure sounds to me like the word "cheer" is sung all the way to its conclusion, which then raises the question of: how did they EVER get rid of it? (On the original mix, it's only attenuated, not actually removed; on the 20 CLASSIC TRACKS, it seems to be fully removed.)

    I agree that it's got to be Larry's mix on that one, but....what happened to the snap? :help:

    Does anybody have the 20 CLASSIC TRACKS LP? (I used to have it....) If so, could you send me the snap/no-snap bit? :help::help:

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Dec 9, 2009
    #40
  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Hello, Sinatra-ites.

    I'm still trying (with your help and input) to get to the bottom of these mix discrepancies. If anybody has a STEREO 9:00 or 12:00 pressing, and you can send along a clip along with deadwax info, it may shed some light on what's going on here.

    Thanks,
    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Dec 11, 2009
    #41
  17. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    What is it you're looking for? The fingersnap bit? I've gotten to wondering about that myself.
     
    Greg1954, Dec 11, 2009
    #42
  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Yes; I think it's roughly 45 seconds from the end.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Dec 11, 2009
    #43
  19. jamesanderson

    jamesanderson New Member

    Location:
    cape cod
    i just got this email

    PRODUCT ISSUES
    　
    Frank Sinatra "In The Wee Small Hours" (50999 6 88654 1 2 – Vinyl)
    and "Come Fly With Me" (50999 6 88653 1 3 – Vinyl)
    have been recalled due to a manufacturing error.
    Please do not continue to solicit these titles.
    exact problem:
    come fly with me- mono recording in stereo packaging
    In the wee small hours- track 8 is wrong on the vinyl.
     
    jamesanderson, Dec 15, 2009
    #44
  20. sharedon

    sharedon Forum Zonophone

    Location:
    Boomer OK
    You know, though the stereo packaging made no sense to me on the CFWM reissue, I actually enjoyed seeing it - it's cool!
     
    sharedon, Dec 15, 2009
    #45
  21. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    Are they keeping the mono mix available, but correcting the artwork, or redoing this in stereo? I hope it's staying mono...
     
    MMM, Dec 15, 2009
    #46
  22. Chris R

    Chris R Forum Fones

    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta via Winnipeg, Manitoba
    tn_Capitol-WGermany-IMG_6443.jpg
    Good to know. I have a West German mono Capitol LP of Come Fly With Me. The LP is on the black/rainbow 9 o'clock Capitol label. It's in great condition. The vinyl is fairly thick (145g). Found the album for dollar at a yard sale a few summers ago.

    Matrix numbers are machine stamped.

    Seite 1 - CAP W1 920-2
    Seite 2 - CAP W2 920-2

    Mfd by Carl Lindström Company.

    This company was pre EMI-Electrola.
     
    Chris R, Jan 17, 2010
    #47
    MLutthans likes this.
  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    What's the last song on side one?
     
    Steve Hoffman, Jan 17, 2010
    #48
  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    FYI, Chris (two posts back) graciously sent me a clip from that German mono LP. I've got a pretty busy week, so I may not get to it right away, but will share the clip very soon. My first impression? Sounds very nice.

    Interesting to note that the German LP has text written inside the rainbow band, something which Capitol in the US did not adopt until many years later, IIRC.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Jan 20, 2010
    #49
  25. AaronW

    AaronW Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I've got two early copies of Come Fly With Me and they have two different back covers, the first is a promo copy with Frank on the back while the other has a "Flight Log". Any info on why the change?
     
    AaronW, Mar 11, 2010
    #50
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