Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: Come Fly with Me (recorded 1957)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Nov 11, 2009.

  1. sinatrapicturefan

    sinatrapicturefan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oakland CA
    Hello Matt,

    Do you happen to know if the 1984 "Alan Dell" remasterings were released on reel t0 reel tape? I recently acquired some FS reel-to-reel tapes, and there are several that appear to be 1984 "Dell" releases. See link below for an example of one. The label on the tapes indicate they were manufactured by Ampex in Elk Grove Village IL. If these were real Capitol UK releases, shouldn't they have been manufactured in the UK? Perhaps they are elaborate home recordings. Any info. is appreciated.

    Please advise if you can't see the scanned images at the link below.

    Login - Dropbox
     
  2. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    Your photos do not appear. A login is required.
     
  3. sinatrapicturefan

    sinatrapicturefan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oakland CA
    Thank you. This link should work:

    Dropbox - Sinatra 1984 reel to reel tapes - Simplify your life

    In looking at the tapes again, it appears they may indeed be official studio releases, although the catalog numbers are not consistent with the numbers used for the LP and cassette versions. The length of the tapes, however, are consistent with what a studio would issue, not the longer blank reel tapes that would usually be used to do a home recording, and the packaging seems authentic. The audio quality is consistent with a studio release as well. If true, surprised to discover that Capitol was releasing reel tapes as late as 1984 and put some of the 1984 remasterings on the market in the reel tape format. I had never heard of or seen these 1984 Capitol reel tapes before.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023
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  4. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    I hate to rain on your parade, but I don't like the way the label looks. See the labels from the 2 different Come Dance With Me reels. See how Capitol Records is printed under the logo. The whole thing looks a bit too modern I think you may have a counterfeit. The characters used (fonts) are wrong. Then again, Matt and Bob know way more than I do so they'll shed more light on this than I can.

    Most Capitol reels had a prefix of ZW and your shows SW. That's also something I don't like about it. The reel is also clear plastic. The Alan Dell and digital re-mastering mentions on the back make me believe this is a scan from the LP or CD. It's illogical to be there on a US consumer reel. I tell ya, it's a strange bird you got there alright.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023
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  5. sinatrapicturefan

    sinatrapicturefan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oakland CA
    Thank you Simon for your input/analysis. That was my initial thought as well -- that these were probably elaborate "home made" recordings. with label, artwork, boxes, etc.. The box artwork is remarkably well done even including the Ampex info at the bottom. I wonder where they would have gotten the shorter length tapes to make these and why go through the bother when the set was available on CD and cassette? The gaps between tracks on the reel tapes are shorter than on the CDs, so they don't seem to have been copied directly from CD. Nor does it sound like they were copied from LPs. I wonder what the audio source was. Very strange.
     
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  6. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    I think someone simply recorded over an old consumer tape and put a new label onto it. It is also easy to make 2 long files using the CD tracks and shorten the space between each track into a software like Audacity and then record that long file onto the old tape.
     
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  7. sinatrapicturefan

    sinatrapicturefan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oakland CA
    Yes, this could be a recycled studio tape with the excess tape cut off. The biggest problem with authenticity and what initially got my attention is the Ampex Elk Grove Village, IL manufacturing info. at the bottom of the box and on the tape label. If this was really a 1984 Dell/Capitol UK reel tape, it would have been manufactured in the UK and would have been issued with a catalog number like the UK LP and cassette releases which started with "ED".
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023
  8. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    Indded. I sincerely doubt that EMI UK would have had this reel produced in the 80's.
     
  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    That doesn't pass the smell test. Just for starters, there is no speed indication, never mind all the other glaring problems.
     
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  10. frus75

    frus75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona (Spain)
    Recently I acquired a circa 1960 (?) usa monaural pressing. It’s a D8/D18, for what it’s worth. It’s in excellent condition, but I found it too soupy, and clearly preferred my 2014 UMe. I thought it’d be better, but it sure doesn’t sound it to me.
     
  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Both cut from the same tape, over fifty years apart, in the same building, even. It's not a great sounding recording, IMO. (The mono recording/mix has a lot of fans. I completely respect everyone of them and their extremely valid opinions! It definitely has some salient features that get lost on the stereo recording/mixes, but a whole heap of negatives, as well -- and the stereo recording has its technical flaws, so nobody walks away without getting their hands dirty.) Maybe grab yourself one of these bad boys?

    Frank Sinatra - Come Fly With Me - Come Dance With Me
     
  12. Luca

    Luca Wolf under sheep clothing

    Location:
    Torino, Italy
    I have two copies of the UK Dell LP (one perfect, the other very good but with a trace of surface noise), and one mint copy of THE mono Dutch DMM.

    I've been listening to them in the past weeks on repeat: for me, the stereo version blows the mono completely. The mono is nice, rich and bassy, and without the flaws of the stereo mix. And the DMM pressing is great. But the stereo has much more liveliness!
     
  13. Luca

    Luca Wolf under sheep clothing

    Location:
    Torino, Italy
    Is the 2014 as soupy as the 1984 Dutch DMM mono pressing?
     
  14. roda12

    roda12 WATERTOWN FOREVER

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    The 2014 Ume is one of the best sounding records in my collection. Love it!
     
  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Basically.
     
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  16. Luca

    Luca Wolf under sheep clothing

    Location:
    Torino, Italy
    For comparison, I think that A Swingin' Affair sounds killer, spacious and dynamic, in mono. The uptempo swingy style of the music is similar, but the quality of the mix is very different. With ASA (I have two UK Dells and the MFSL SACD) the lack of stereo is not important: it's as perfect as it is.
     
  17. Luca

    Luca Wolf under sheep clothing

    Location:
    Torino, Italy
    Still looking for some Dutch DMM 1984/1985 releases that I can't find...

    Where are you? STEREO (I only seem to find the mono...)
    Come fly with me STEREO (I only seem to find the mono...)
    Sinatra's Swinging Session STEREO (I only seem to find the mono...)
    All the way MONO (on the contrary... plenty of stereo copies around, but no mono!)

    If someone has NM copies of any of these at a reasonable price, I might be interested!
     
  18. Luca

    Luca Wolf under sheep clothing

    Location:
    Torino, Italy
    Still looking for:


    Where are you? STEREO
    Sinatra's Swinging Session STEREO
    All the way MONO
     
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  19. frus75

    frus75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona (Spain)
    a bit late answering you, but I always find the monaural Come Fly With Me to lack something. I may be short of words, but it’s like all the previous mono recording (even being monaural) had “space”, while this one sounds mono, if you know what I mean.
    By the way, I’m aware that there’s a legion of fans of monaural, I mean monaural per se, be it Sinatra or Elvis or whoever. Like “if it’s monaural it’s good”. I am a stereo guy myself, but I have to confess I cringe with the stereo distortion.

    In the end, my “go to” version is Walsh cd, while on vinyl I go for the 2014 UME version and my 58 USA mono original.
     
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  20. Luca

    Luca Wolf under sheep clothing

    Location:
    Torino, Italy
    Me, I love the UK Dell/Dutch DMM and the MFSL stereo.

    I also have the DMM mono and the UMe mono, but like you I prefer the stereo versions albeit flawed.
     
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  21. frus75

    frus75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona (Spain)
    I like the way the Dell albums sound, but I’m very sensistive to distortion.
     
  22. Ere

    Ere Senior Member

    Location:
    The Silver Spring
    [​IMG]
    photo by Yul Brynner, Hollywood, 1964
     
  23. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Is Jimmy Van Heusen the pilot?
     
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  24. kennyluc1

    kennyluc1 Frank Sinatra collector

    From the back of the pilot's head it look's like it could be Van Heusen.
     
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  25. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    ProStudioMasters added a multi-format mono Hi-Res release of Come Fly With Me to its web site this week. Any info available? Is this the same mastering as 2014? I note this one is available in DSD.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2024 at 7:22 AM
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