Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: "Nice 'n' Easy" - 1960*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Jun 19, 2010.

  1. TrueStory

    TrueStory Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gothenburg
    Looking now at discogs I also see a spanish reissue from 1985 which supposedly is in mono, Frank Sinatra - Nice 'N' Easy , never noticed this one before. I haven't heard any spanish reissue of any Sinatra album, but would be interesting to compare it to my dutch DMM.
     
  2. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    But the back cover says FULL DIMENSIONAL STEREO, and the label says ESTEREOFONICO.
     
  3. TrueStory

    TrueStory Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gothenburg
    Yeah, like my dutch DMM (but stereo)... :p
     
  4. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Or that superior French pressing of Close to You which has seen many different "versions". For instance, mine says it's "DUOPHONIC" yet it is the best sounding pressing of that LP around anywhere. So, go figure!
     
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  5. TrueStory

    TrueStory Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gothenburg
    I know, I actually had that same record! Although I later replaced it with a dutch DMM copy as well, really impressed by many of these dutch pressings! But the french "Duophonic" was not bad in any way, gave it to a friend who is also into Sinatra.
     
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  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018
  7. TrueStory

    TrueStory Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gothenburg
    You have a true stereo dutch DMM of "Nice 'n' Easy"? Those are all to my knowledge at least, but might be more out there!
     
  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Yep! I just played it to make sure. Stereo cover, stereo label, stereo audio.
     
  9. TrueStory

    TrueStory Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gothenburg
    How wonderfully confusing!
     
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  10. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    There are two reasons the first violins are to the left of the conductor: one sort of historical. The main reason is that when the violins are on the left, the sound projects directly out to the audience. Violinists hold the violin in the left hand so the body of the violin faces to the right out to the audience. Split strings have the disadvantage that the second violins have their sound directed away from the audience and therefore are less brilliant sounding. They are put there to make the counterpoint clearer.

    Secondarily in the old days before dedicated conductors the first violinist or concertmaster was the conductor. Since the violin was in his left hand he was looking at the orchestra and could direct them more easily.
     
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  11. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edmonton
    Thus, violins should be mixed left or across a stereo mix but never hard right. Otherwise, a recording sounds unnatural to me, regardless of genre.
     
  12. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    It shouldn't make any auditory difference other than mismatched expectations. The microphones would have captured the first violins in the normal way but they would be transported along with all other left channel info to the right channel and vice versa if channels are flipped. If we are just talking about high frequency information such as first violins alone (pop music) that could be in either R or L locations since percussion also can be put in different spots on an orchestral stage. Since first violins play much more than special percussion it doesn't make sense though to put them hard left or right.

    While the orchestra has been relatively optimized in its physical arrangement it is not perfectly optimized. That's why conductors have to spend time balancing the dynamics of various orchestral sections. Composers try to balance things out with their orchestration but it is never exact.

    The lack of standard physical arrangement of pop rock instruments has been a big factor in poor mixes IMO with such material.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
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  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Of course, it is possible to re-correct this problem, typically, and especially during the 3-track era. Just flip the stereo mix, and you're back to "normal." In fact, virtually all stereo editions of the ALL THE WAY compilation album, which I suspect was just the result of having wires crossed (literally) when it came time to remix those tracks for stereo LP release in 1961. Following the line of "assuming" that it was accidental, there is at least one USA LP cut that re-reversed the tracks, putting strings on the left, possibly by accident; and the 1984 UK stereo LP also re-reversed the tracks.
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. ZippyPippy

    ZippyPippy Forum Resident

    To rush would be a crime...
     
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  15. TrueStory

    TrueStory Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gothenburg
    By the way, do you like the sound of the stereo? Good to know if it's worth picking up should I come across one
     
  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Honestly, I've never played it, aside from the quick little instant to confirm that it's stereo. The next album we get to in the ongoing survey will be Nice 'n' Easy, so I'll be spending some time with it shortly. That said, from the minute or two that I spent with it the other day, I thought it sounded good, but I did no A/B comparisons or anything.
     
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  17. TrueStory

    TrueStory Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gothenburg
    Picked up another dutch DMM today, hoping it would be a true stereo this time. Unfourtunately this copy also is in mono, despite the sleeve and labels, meaning these mono records aren't that uncommon! At least I paid next to nothing for it, will probably give it to a friend who doesn't own "Nice 'n' Easy" in any form on vinyl.
     
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  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    You have to look at the scribe in the runout groove to know if you have stereo or mono. My stereo LP reads (side 1, side 2):
    2601421-A3+D
    2601421-B3+D

    (I'm anticipating that yours are A1 and B1 cuts -- perhaps with a +C where mine are a +D.)
     
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  19. TrueStory

    TrueStory Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gothenburg
    Yes, I thought of that when I stood in the store today holding the new record, but I hadn't thought to check the matrix numbers on my copy at home since I bought it :p Anyway, both my copies have A1+D and B1+D instead of the ones on your record, so now I at least know which matrix numbers to look for in the future.
     
  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    I think it's very possible that the mono copies came out first (for all of these titles that have both), and then were supplanted by stereo copies. (I think they likely all follow the A1/B1 pattern.) It still strikes me as incredibly odd that both versions carry the same catalog number and both use the stereo artwork (a mistake that was duplicated by Capitol in the USA in 2009, so it's not just a Dutch thing).
     
  21. TrueStory

    TrueStory Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gothenburg
    Sounds like a logical conclusion based on the matrix numbers, but what is really strange in my eyes is why they issued these records in mono in the first place? Presumably it would have been easier, and cheaper, to use the digital stereo source used on the UK Dell right away, instead of using a digital copy of the mono mix and later make true stereo records.
     
  22. Flaming Torch

    Flaming Torch Forum Resident

    I had a look at the Capitol Scorecard Capitol Scorecard and noiticed it ends with No One Cares. I have a feeling it used to have all the Capitol albums. Anyway no Nice n Easy. I have the MFSL which is great but just a gold cd - no sacd. I guess we might have had an sacd in the more recent MFSL series but unfortunately it ended. Apart from an old 1980 era vinyl version the only other cd I have is the much derided Entertainer of the Century cd. Worth tracking down a Walsh cd? Does anyone know what the recent 2012 cd version is mastering wise. No new vinyl version in print at this time. Back to the music - I always liked this album (its just a great listen - timeless) - hence buying my own in the 1980s.
    Nearly forgot I have it the UK Capitol albums cd box as well. Probably enough copies really but would love a high resolution download, sacd or a really nice vinyl version.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  23. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    It did, but Matt withdrew his old evaluation because it was out of date. Patience. :)
     
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  24. Flaming Torch

    Flaming Torch Forum Resident

    Thanks.
     
  25. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Was "Dream" actually recorded twice for this album? Once on March 2, unreleased, and again on March 3, which is the version on the album? Any actual complete takes from March 2? Any releases, unofficial or otherwise?
     

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