Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Jun 19, 2010.
Steve Albin's discography reports no issues for the March 2nd performance, and the March 3rd performance is identified as the version included on the album. The March 2nd performance doesn't explicitly state "unissued", although I assume it is unless there are bootlegs (the scope of his discography are official releases only).
Yep; that's the one I saw, too. Thanks! Does anybody ( @Bob F ? @Ronald Sarbo ?) know if any full takes were actually recorded on the 2nd? Was Sinatra just not "in the mood" for that arrangement? Something he didn't like in the arrangement, maybe? Just curious.
Maybe Albin's sessionography is inaccurate here?
I can ask Steve if he knows anything that's not in the discography?
Is it possible there could be a mix-up in the Capitol papers and there's really only one master?
Probably more likely the March 2nd attempt was rejected.
No, “Dream” was listed in the March 2 session report. Same master no. as the released version from March 3 (out of sequence with the other March 3 songs), so they probably redid something small from the previous day.
Was Frank dissatisfied maybe?
Going back a few years:
Zoom ahead a few years. I put both discs into the CD Comparator 2000(TM), and they are identical (despite previous thoughts to the contrary). (Both use the same, unique mastering of the original stereo mix, a mastering not available anywhere else, to my knowledge.)
It might have been an incomplete recording. If anyone has this 2-CD set (I don’t), they might be able to confirm. It contains the first two takes of “Dream” from the session of March 2, with reported timings of 0:22 and 1:15. (The full track runs 2:48, so there must be a lot of session chatter, also.) The released album track from March 3 was 2:54 in length.
(Note the misspelling of Capitol on this “gem” issue. )
Attention to detail IS important.
I assume this is not a legit release. Have any of Frank's record labels issued CDs of just outtakes as opposed to what appears to be a few "alternate takes" found on bigger sets.
After a little bit of hunting, it turns out I do have a poor-sounding MP3 copy of this after all. (It first appeared on an underground CD titled “Rarest Capitol Sessions Vol. II” from Gem Records.) Here’s the scoop…
“Dream” was the first song recorded at the Capitol session of March 2, 1960 (session no. E-75). Sinatra had trouble with the high notes. Two unfinished takes were attempted (master no. E-33363). Take -1 was aborted after 22 seconds. FS: “Once more. Yeah, that’s a high mother! For Clark Dennis…” Take -2 lasted a minute and 15 seconds. FS: “Hold It! Next song?” Booth: “She’s Funny That Way.” He then proceeded to knock off the next tune in 9 takes and almost 19 minutes (with some lyric extras along the way, e.g., “Jewish people don’t live in tents; we don’t even smoke camels”).
Apparently, Frank returned to “Dream” at the start of the next day’s session (no. E-76 on March 3), keeping the same master number. Session tapes must exist, as “Mam’selle” and “How Deep Is the Ocean?” are also on this disc, but not the final “Dream” take from the second session. Nothing of the two aborted takes from the first session would have been released.
You beat me to getting to my copy, @Bob F . Great work as usual. Can you tell Mr. S was still on a high from The Summit? He worked the studio like the Copa Room!
Like I've mentioned before, I'm going through my vinyl collection that had been stored away for more than ten years.
And again I found another DMM mistake!!!
My "Nice'n'easy" DMM copy reads stereo (cover AND label!) but is mono! Well, at least BOTH sides are mono this time! Unlike my "No one cares" which has stereo on one side and mono on the other (remember?).
But I have to say that the DMM has a really fine beautiful mono sound. And when I compare it to the stereo Cd from 1991 it is so different I can't believe this album was a mono folddown. The instrumental soloist are so much more prominently featured, it sounds like a different mix.
I'm not surprised to read this. Dean Martin's A Winter Romance and Dinah Shore's Yes Indeed! also sound different enough in mono that they can't be fold-downs. All three albums are from roughly the same period (1959-1960).
It *is* a different mix. The 1991 CD was (For 11 tracks) a new-in-1988 remix from the 3-track. The title track appears to be a then-new 1991 remix. If the mono LP is a fold-down, it's a fold from the 1960 mix.
When did this mono DMM issue come out, and can anybody compare it to the original mono LP?
I second that request!
The DMM came out in 1984 as part of the Alan Dell series.
If the original release was a mono folddown, what would have been the reason to re-release it in 1984?
It was out of print in the UK and Europe.
Is there a list of these DMM re-issues anywhere. And if buying from Discogs or eBay, I assume the buyer is reliant on The seller stating something like "released in 1984" etc. For identification. Any idea how these compare sound wise to an original U.K. mono release.
Is the groupthink now that the mono mix is a fold-down? I don't recall that ever coming up before. (I probably haven't listened to a mono mix track from this album since about June of 2010!)
Well, somewhere in this forum I read that the later Capitol albums were fold-downs. So I assumed "Nice'n'easy" was also thought of as fold-down.
There are a couple of albums -- No One Cares and Nice 'n' Easy, I think -- that have mono vocal reverb within the stereo mix, which is odd enough that I am cynical of the idea that it may have been accidental. I think that it may have been done to streamline the creation of the mono and stereo mixes, i.e., the mono reverb levels on the vocal will stay constant vis-a-vis the volume of the vocal, regardless of whether it is appearing within a stereo mix or a mono mix -- nothing will cancel out due to phase anomalies when summed to mono. (Side note: This "mono reverb on a stereo recording" was common on Capitol LPs around the '59/'60 timeframe. There is a pretty famous Virgil Fox/orchestral LP (this one) on Capitol that has mono reverb added to the orchestra, which is very distracting when there's a big double forte attack in the orchestra, and as the reverb tails decay, the sound all funnels toward the middle of the stereo image, since the reverb is mono, not stereo. Again, I doubt that this was done accidentally.)
There is one album, Come Swing with Me, that is either a fold-down or, as I've stated elsewhere, "effectively a fold-down," i.e., there is no audible difference (that I can discern) between playing the mono mix and playing the stereo mix with the mono button pushed. (There is also a piano riff that appears to have been overdubbed directly onto the stereo mix tape -- it is not on the 3-track tape -- that also appears on the mono LP. The only way that could happen is if the mono mix were made from the stereo mixdown tape, not from the 3-track.) My advice on that album has been: If you don't like the ping-pong stereo effect on the recording, get the best-sounding original stereo mix (LP or tape) you can find, and push the mono button. Problem solved! (The mono USA mono cuts I've heard are heavily compressed, while some of the later stereo cuts are not compressed, so, if the mono is a fold-down or "effectively a fold-down," then the non-compressed stereo editions of the original stereo mix can provide a more dynamic "mono mix" than you'll find on a USA mono LP. UK monos are a different story -- no compression/limiting, at least on my copy.)
Anybody here have this 1982 Australian pressing?
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