Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: "Nice 'n' Easy" - 1960*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Jun 19, 2010.

  1. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edmonton
    Not sure; my LP is dated 1998/2002.
     
  2. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    That's the 2008 LP. Packaging was misdated by edict of Capitol/EMI. Catalog no. should be MFSL 1-317, with pink banner on the cover:

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edmonton
    Thanks for clarifying. I'm not too familiar with the Sinatra releases. Was it really a limited edition? My copy isn't numbered. I can hear some compression on this disc that's not on the 4 track. But, it's sparing and I wouldn't have noticed without the reel for comparison.
     
  4. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    It was as limited as any other MFSL release. Capitol wouldn't allow MoFi to put numbers on the LPs or Gold CDs. It was a cause of outrage at the time (at least on my part). They were advertised as "numbered limited editions" and "earliest pre-orders get the lowest numbers." I ordered early for just that reason, but could have saved money by waiting until after release. And it was a long, delayed time from announcement to release. Seven years later, I'm still annoyed.
     
  5. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edmonton
    Understandable. I'm annoyed too. I always learn so much from these threads :)

    Is the general consensus that the MoFi Sinatra releases have the best sound of the reissues to date?
     
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  6. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
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  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Regarding the compression issue that @.crystalised. has brought up:

    In terms of dynamics (not necessarily to be equated with audibility of compression), the 2008 MFSL LP mildly beats out the 1961 reel-to-reel tape "by the numbers." In terms of audibility, I don't own the 2008 LP, but I do have some samples that have been sent my way, and I don't hear a problem there to any larger degree than I hear it on the open reel tape or on any other well-mastered version, FWIW (and we all hear things differently).

    That said, the bothersome, audible limiting employed on the vocal track during mixdown was the topic on one of the pages on the old Nice 'n' Easy web stuff that is not currently uploaded. Here it is, should anybody wish to listen/read:

    Audio: CLIP ONE
    Audio: CLIP TWO

    <<The above two clips are the “mid” component from the original mix. In this case, I used the recent MFSL CD, but any source that uses the original mix exhibits the same flaw. Clearly, a limiter was in use during the mixdown session that was set in a way that made it misbehave, causing the Entertainer of the Century to pulse his dynamics like a drunken sailor. In [CLIP ONE], do you really think that Frank Sinatra was trying to sing, “Your lovely eyes seem to sparkle just liKE WINE DOes; no heart every yearned the waY THAT MINE DOES,” or that on [CLIP TWO] he was intentionally singing, “but why should I leaVE HER ANd wHY SHoULD I go?” Of course not! It happens over and over, though, in the original stereo mix, and it drives me batty! Here (below) is [the CLIP TWO segment] again, first from the Walsh remix, then from the original/MFSL mix. [CLIP THREE below contains] the “mid” only, to highlight the vocal element; [CLIP FOUR below plays it] within the stereo context:>>

    Audio: CLIP THREE
    Audio: CLIP FOUR

    Clearly, that sort of thing was not intended, and it’s not the way Frank Sinatra sang that song in the studio, yet it is what we’ve been hearing in the stereo mix for the last half-century.... That’s my real beef with the original stereo mix, coupled with the annoying mono vocal reverb and the off-balance stereo image. (Notice in that last clip how there’s very little going on in the right channel? Much of this album is that way.)

    Having said all that (and it was a lot), I still will say that I ENJOY the Nice ‘n’ Easy album, musically and sonically, but there are some characteristics in the original recording and in the stereo mixes that do not sit well with me.>>

    (Upon reflection, lo these many years later, there's some limiting/compressing in the vocal line on the Walsh CD, too, but of a very different and less annoying nature.)
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
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  8. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
  9. AudioVinyl Newbie

    AudioVinyl Newbie Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    Hello MLutthans and the entire Steve Hoffman Forum Community:

    My name is Andy and I hail from NYC. Although I am only 26 years old, I was born and raised on vinyl since "day one." Over the last ten years, through family, friends, and my own collecting ventures, I have inherited a modest collection of vinyl- particularly Jazz vocalists. Sinatra is one of the top "members" of my collection.

    I acquired original "gray label" MONO pressings of Frank's early Capitol albums (mostly in VG+ to NM condition) and am looking to complete the Capitol years.

    In regards to NICE N' EASY, I am looking for an alternative listening experience to my original 1960 "rainbow label" stereo pressing that is out of phase (with LOADS of soupy reverb to boot).

    What is the "dry"-est sounding pressing of this album available? If a true dry pressing does not exist, what pressing would you recommend that contains the least amount of reverb?

    Thank you in advance for your help and consideration.

    I look forward to your replies....
     
  10. VINYLFREAK1978

    VINYLFREAK1978 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Middle England
    Anybody have the 1984 Vinyl silver sticker digital masters.. I have all,his Capitols on these and they sound sublime.
     
  11. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    No such thing. You may prefer the 1988(?) & 1991 (same sound as the '88, but with bonus tracks, though with worse artwork on the rear) CDs that Larry Walsh remixed and mastered. I don't, because I don't care for how the echo itself sounds on it (especially on Frank's vocal), but it does have its advantages, including less echo. There's also the few songs from the album on THE CAPITOL YEARS 3 disc set, which are drier...
     
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  12. AudioVinyl Newbie

    AudioVinyl Newbie Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    So the Larry Walsh CD does have reverb after all?

    It sounds kind of strange that only a few years later, he remixed the tracks for THE CAPITOL YEARS totally dry!

    Just out of curiosity, does the 1984 Alan Dell LP have less echo than the original pressings as well (mono and stereo)?
     
  13. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Not mixed totally dry (from what I remember)...drier, and most dry vs the others. Ron Furmanek produced the 3CD set, so that (and this is not taking away from Larry's talents whatsoever) was his decision to have those songs mixed drier.

    The Dell has the original stereo mix with the echo you're familiar with from your early pressing.
     
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  14. AudioVinyl Newbie

    AudioVinyl Newbie Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    Thanks a bunch! I'll try to get a hold of the Walsh CD....In the meantime, I'll keep my original stereo pressing, of course. Perhaps UMe will re-issue the album in a new (hopefully dry) remix on vinyl as part of their ongoing series???
     
  15. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Relocated from the Cone Fly with Me thread, where @Marc Bessette had asked who remastered the iTunes version of that album (which is from the Bob Norberg CD)...
    Actually, the iTunes album (—> Nice 'N' Easy by Frank Sinatra, ℗ 1999) is also the Norberg remaster, but it does contain some MONO tracks.

    The 12-track album was recorded in 1960 (and is STEREO on iTunes), but there are four bonus tracks. The last three bonuses are from 1953–54, and those were recorded in mono only. They don't really belong with the album, but Capitol tried to throw in some value-added extras of a similar nature to the other 13 songs. (For that matter, the title track doesn't belong either; its expected popularity as a single caused it to bump "The Nearness of You" on the vinyl release, which is present here as the first bonus track.)
     
  16. Fender Relic

    Fender Relic Forum Resident

    Location:
    PennsylBama
    Had some friends over for diner Friday night and randomly picked an original nr. Mint mono Capitol Nice n Easy out of a pile of Frank. It sounded lush and set a mood....perfect! Ive never heard any other version so don't have anything to offer in comparisons.
     
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  17. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    How did they like hearing Frank?
     
  18. Fender Relic

    Fender Relic Forum Resident

    Location:
    PennsylBama
    They loved it! It sparked a conversation about how my friends dad was a great singer and used to listen to Frank quite a bit and would dress like him with those 60's hats. Plus,they were a big Italian family and his wife manages a record store and has for almost 30 years. Nice N Easy was a perfect pick. We listened to LP's all night with Nancy Sinatra's GH's,Bobby Vinton's GH's,a Troggs Rhino comp,Major Lance Um,Um,Um,Um,Lou Rawls with The Pilgrim Travellers,Rod Stewart EPTAS,Joni's For The Roses and others taking a spin.
     
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  19. Marc Bessette

    Marc Bessette The King of Somewhere Cold

    Thanks Bob. Too bad that iTunes has to pick the Norbergs to sell instead of the Walsh's. I think that I will email them to voice my dissatisfaction....not that they will listen. I will pick up the Walsh cd's.
     
  20. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    In all fairness, the fault lies with Capitol, not iTunes. Apple just sells what Capitol supplies. Remember that the Walsh CDs were out of print (in the US) before iTunes even existed, and the Norberg CDs are the in-print versions today.

    You can still buy most of the Walsh CDs inexpensively from the UK, though.
    See this post: —> Frank Sinatra - Best Sounding CDs?
     
  21. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Senior Member

    Sounds like a wonderful night!

    BTW, slightly off topic, but as a lifelong Joni fan, and a "recently-besotted" Frank fan, I have to say that, to my ears, Joni was extremely, and in the most wonderful way, very VERY influenced by Frank, esp. his pop/jazz Capitol period of the 50's. If you listen to Hissing of Summer Lawns, or her later Geffen albums, Sinatra's phrasing, diction and enunciation are ALL over Joni's later work. In fact a lot of Hissing of Summer Lawns sounds like an homage to Frank. (Some may say I'm crazy, but it's what I hear.)

    I am highly impressed that Joni, with a long line of many others, has learned from The Voice!
     
  22. MarkusGermany

    MarkusGermany WINNING

    Location:
    Rheinberg, Germany
    Maybe you're able to use the German iTunes Store. There you can find the album (needledrop) in MONO. The SQ is quite ok. There are also the mono versions of CDWM, CSWM, PONR and SSS! (each 4,99 €)
     
  23. Marc Bessette

    Marc Bessette The King of Somewhere Cold

    Interesting. I will have to attempt it. Being in Canada as opposed to US, I might just be able to swing that. Thank you for the tip..very kind of you
     
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  24. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edmonton
    There's needledrops on the iTunes store? Interesting. Are they designated such, or are they just P.D. issues that were lifted from the records?
     
  25. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edmonton
    I reviewed the tape of Nice 'n Easy on "Stardust Melody" this afternoon:



    Thanks again @Simon A! :wave:
     
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