Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: "Point of No Return" - rec. 1961*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by paulmock, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    There ya' go, answering your own question. :)
     
  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    If I would learn to read, this stuff wouldn't happen! I checked the sessionography online to find out who played harp, and totally glossed over the spot where it reads, "arr: Heinie Beau!"
     
  3. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    How about tape splices/edits? I can hear nine:

    •Memories of You - 2:08.
    •When the World was Young - 3:25
    •These Foolish Things - 2:50, 3:38
    •As Time Goes By - 0:18, 1:28, and either a splice or crossfade at 2:33
    •It’s a Blue World - 1:50
    •I’ll Remember April - 1:45

    DId I miss any?
     
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  4. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    Matt, you can't see/catch everything. It's something I remembered...
     
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  5. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    I love the new additions to the page, Matt.

    You've given me a new appreciation for the subtleties of the arrangement on "These Foolish Things." Although, I wish that FS had put more heart into the vocals. If this had been one of the revisitations of Columbia songs on NnE, maybe he would have felt obliged to at least match his wonderful earlier effort.

    I totally agree with you that "April" and "Blue World" are the high and low points of the album, respectively.

    One could make a nice little EP of Sinatra-Beau performances--not perfect but nice. Maybe even a lovely album of Capitol songs not arranged by Riddle, May, Jenkins and Stordahl. I guess that Skip Martin is the other arranger whose charts would be included on such a collection.
     
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  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    So, here's some trivia: Who were the last three arrangers whose work was recorded for Sinatra/Capitol tracks? (Let's not count the Duets stuff, eh?) Axel Stordahl, Heinie Beau and Skip Martin! Hardly names most people associate with the Capitol years in any major way.
     
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  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    If you included the stuff Beau did on Columbia, you probably could milk a whole album out of the Beau material, and yes, it would be pretty good!

    By the way, he also did my favorite COME SWING WITH ME track: American Beauty Rose.
     
  8. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Beau was arranging for Sinatra from the very beginning at Capitol: "Lean Baby"
     
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  9. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    George Siravo, also.

    [Added:] Dick Reynolds, on the two tracks with Ray Anthony. Felix Slatkin, on "Monique."
     
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  10. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Didn't Cavanaugh arrange a couple as well?
     
  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    From 1955: If I had Three Wishes, How Could You Do a Thing Like That to Me, Two Hearts, Two Kisses, and From the Bottom to the Top. Anything besides those four?
     
  12. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Nelson Riddle arranged and conducted the first two tracks. Cavanaugh "conducted" the last two with the Nuggets ("Big Dave's Music"). But according to Silva's discography, Riddle arranged all four tracks at the session of March 7, 1955. Others credit Cavanaugh as arranger for the two Nuggets tracks only.
     
  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    In error, then:

    Date: March 7, 1955
    Location: Los Angeles
    Frank Sinatra (ldr), Nelson Riddle (con), Chuck Gentry, Arthur "Skeets" Herfert, Plas Johnson, Babe Russin, Wilbur Schwartz (r), Harry "Sweets" Edison, Conrad Gozzo, Manny Klein, Vito "Mickey" Mangano (t), Walter Benson, Ed Kusby, Dick Noel, Tommy Pederson (tb), Jack Marshall (g), Ray Johnson, Bill Miller (p), Alvin Stoller (d), Max Albright (mar), Frank Sinatra (v)
    a. 13594 If I Had Three Wishes (Spence, Baum) / arr: Dave Cavanaugh
    Capitol 78: 3102
    Capitol 45: 3102
    Capitol LP 12": W-1164 — Look To Your Heart (1959)

    b. 13595 How Could You Do A Thing Like That To Me (T. Glenn, Allan Roberts) / arr: Dave Cavanaugh
    Capitol 78: 3130
    Capitol 45: 3130
    Capitol LP 12": W-1429 — Swing Easy! (1960)

    No surprise, as these sound like Riddle. http://www.jazzdiscography.com/Artists/Sinatra/capitol1.php
     
  14. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Not to knock that online Sessionography, but I believe it's purely derivative (and this is mentioned on the website). I wouldn't be surprised at occasional mistakes and omissions. E.g., Joe Comfort (b) is missing from the session quoted above.

    I've found Silva's book to be much more reliable, but I always check it against several other sources.
     
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  15. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    I'd be surprised if the above two weren't Nelson's arrangements. They sound like his to me (but that's not proof of anything).
     
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  16. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Maybe I have said it before, but never have I heard a brass section sound so downright mournful/bittersweet than on this album. No doubt that at times it is loud and "brassy" ala' dance band style...but there are times when the trumpets just "cry".
     
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  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    ^^^^Very much so, IMO, in the "break" of I'll Be Seeing You.
     
  18. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    and for me, on "Memories of You" where even Mr. S sounds about to break:

    "And your face beams in my dreams spite of all I do
    EHHHHHHHHHHHVRYTHING seems to bring
    memories...just memories.... uuuuuuuuuuuuuvvvvvvvvvvvvvvhhhhhhhhhhhyouuuuuuuu"

    gets me every single damn time!
     
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  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    You know how the WHERE ARE YOU cover painting was based on a photo taken during the TONE POEMS FOR COLOR sessions? Similar deal for the original SONGS FOR SWINGIN' LOVERS cover painting? Was the image of Sinatra's face on the cover to POINT OF NO RETURN based on a photo? (Bob already pointed out the NYC aspect of the rest of the cover image.)

    And musically, are there any passages on this album that really remind you of Stordahl's Columbia-era sound?
     
  20. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I've searched for one to no avail, but I'm sure a corresponding photo must exist somewhere.
     
  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I would imagine so.
     
  22. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il

    I didn't realize that Slatkin wrote arrangements. Lovely job on "Monique," then. I would have sworn it was Riddle.
     
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  23. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il

    Would LOVE to see it. Do we know when Sinatra visited NYC in this period?
     
  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

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  25. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Amoeba Hollywood has a sealed SW copy of this in the bins today.
     

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