Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality (and general discussion): Singles, Soundtracks, Etc.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    D and N make sense for the USA designations. Was there a reason behind N and U in England?
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Nasty.
    Unlistenable.
     
  3. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Which one?
     
  4. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

  5. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Interesting to hear all those now. I'd chose THE CAPITOL YEARS (3 disc set) version as best overall...
     
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  6. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Saturday, May 2, 1953

    Two days after his second Capitol date, Frank Sinatra was back at the Melrose Avenue studios for a rare Saturday afternoon session. From 3 p.m. to 6 p.m. on this day, four more songs were recorded, as arranged and conducted by Nelson Riddle.

    The first three of these were used in upcoming Capitol singles, and they appear in The Complete Capitol Singles Collection (disc 1 of 4):

    Anytime, Anywhere
    (Music by Imogene Carpenter; lyrics by Lenny Adelson)

    This song first appeared on LP in the 1959 compilation, Look To Your Heart.​

    My One And Only Love
    (Music by Guy Wood; lyrics by Robert Mellin)

    This beautiful ballad contained new lyrics added to Wood's Music From Beyond The Moon from 1947. It appeared on LP in the 1956 compilation, This Is Sinatra!, and as a bonus track on the second CD issue of Nice 'N' Easy in 1991.​

    From Here To Eternity - Take 9
    (Music by Freddie Karger; lyrics by Robert Wells)

    The song was recorded to promote the upcoming movie of the same title (see below), and it would reach #15 on the pop singles chart. (It is not used in the film.) It first appeared on LP in 1956 in This Is Sinatra!. It has been issued in many CD compilations since The Capitol Collector's Series in 1989.​

    I Can Read Between The Lines
    (Music & lyrics by Ramon Getzov & Sid Frank)

    This ballad remained unreleased in the Capitol vaults until 1962 when it was added as an extra track to the 12" LP reissue of Songs For Young Lovers. Its first CD appearance was as a bonus track on the 1991 issue of Where Are You?.​

    Strings and French horns were added to the orchestra for these arrangements which are indisputably Nelson Riddle's own style:

    Musicians (23): Mannie Klein, Clyde Hurley (trumpet); Milt Bernhart, Jimmy Priddy (trombone); John Cave, Vincent DeRosa (French horn); Skeets Herfurt, James Williamson, Ted Nash (saxophone & woodwinds); Mischa Russell, Alex Murray, Henry Hill, Gerald Vinci, Victor Bay, Walter Edelstein (violin); Paul Robyn, Alfred Barr (viola); Eleanor Slatkin (cello); Kathryn Julye (harp); Bill Miller (piano); Bob Bain (guitar); Eddie Gilbert (bass); Alvin Stoller (drums).
    __________________

    With the moderate success of the singles releases from his first three Capitol recording sessions, Frank Sinatra's future with the label (and with arranger Nelson Riddle) was no longer in question. The hit movie From Here To Eternity would be released the following August, earning FS a Best Supporting Actor Oscar and cementing his show business comeback.



    The stage was now set for a first Capitol album of standards (Songs For Young Lovers), recording for which would take place in November of 1953. (To be continued...)
    __________________
    ~ Frank's Albums
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
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  7. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    "Anytime, Anywhere" is amazing. It doesn't get enough attention. I had to say that. :)
     
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  8. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Still listening to the "South of the Border" clips: partly for reasons mentioned above regarding previous tracks, and patly for track-specific reasons, again, I have to say that I very much like the D9 presentation.

    Also, comparing the Capitol Collectors sample with the Capitol Years one, its clear that however much noise reduction may be on the latter (as opposed to the former), it is not nearly as much as was applied to the Beatles releases of the mid to late 90s. Still, there is a little less air on the Capitol Years track than on the Collector's series one, whatever else its merits.
     
  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Re: "Don't Worry 'Bout Me"

    Apparently, I had inadvertently failed to post a clip from the 1998 UK CD boxed set. Sorry! That disc is now sampled on the comparisons page, or via direct-access link here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1953_-_SinglesEtc2_files/DWBM UK98 Clip.wav

    Re: "South of the Border"

    :righton: Thanks, guys! The more opinions, the better!

    By the way, I've been gone for a couple of days, but as I mentioned, I did some "blind listening" to the non-Norberg versions before I left town, and then listened a few times in the car during a long drive. My blind-listening notes from my home-listening session were neatly typed, but then in the car, I was trying to listen, drive, and scribble notes at the same time. The notes were so sloppily written, even *I* had a hard time reading them! Here they are:
    DSC_0290.jpg
    My doctor would be proud! Only a pharmacist could decipher that! (Hey, I was driving!)
    Anyway, it looks like tracks 1-3, 6, and 8 made no impression on me. (Those versions were the D9 cut, The Sinatra Touch, the "Star Line" LP, Collectors Series, and the 1987 Come Fly with Me track.)

    #4 -- "Good" (misspelled to apparently read "God") = Japan LP
    #5 -- "thin, bright, no bass, bass light" = Dell LP
    #7 -- "Good, bass lean, but defined" = The Capitol Years (Walsh/Furmanek)
    #9 -- "bright" = This is Frank Sinatra 1953-1957 UK CD
    #10 -- "hard" = 1998 UK boxed set CD
    #11 -- "tubby" = Australian The Frank Sinatra Collection CD
    #12 -- "No cymbals, dull, rolled off" = D1 LP

    Having now been home to re-listen "for real," I pretty much agree with those in-car notes, which pretty much agree with the listening I did on Sunday morning at home. I think the top versions are The Capitol Years on CD and Doctor Robert's Japanese LP on vinyl, with The Sinatra Touch still striking me as an odd-but-interesting, unique variant. No version is what I would call 100% correct on this one!

    Moving on to the next session, I have these versions already (either from my own collection, or via clips already sent along):
    •"Anytime, Anywhere" - MFSL LP, This is Frank Sinatra 1953-1957 UK CD, The Complete Capitol Singles Collection, The Rarities Volume II LP.

    •"My One and Only Love" - This is Sinatra D1, Star Line and UK Dell LPs, This is Frank Sinatra 1953-1957 UK CD, Songs for Young Lovers UK Alan Dell LP, Nice 'n' Easy Walsh and Norberg CDs, The Complete Capitol Singles Collection

    "From Here to Eternity" - This is Sinatra D1, Star Line and UK Dell LPs, This is Frank Sinatra 1953-1957 UK CD, The Complete Capitol Singles Collection, The Sinatra Touch, Screen Sinatra LP and CD versions, Sinatra 80th: All the Best, 25 Classic Tracks UK CD, Sinatra in Hollywood CD set

    •"I Can Read Between the Lines" - UK Dell Songs for Young Lovers LP, Where Are You Walsh and Norberg CDs.

    If you can help out, please drop me a line. Thanks, as usual!
     
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  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Chuck Granata was kind enough to contribute samples, and the findings are interesting regarding this nearly-impossible-to-find 1989 Japanese Capitol/Toshiba CD.
    •Lean Baby: reuses the Walsh mastering
    •I'm Walking behind you: reuses the Walsh mastering
    •I've Got the World on a String: Oddly, this is the same digital transfer as was used later in the UK This is Frank Sinatra 1953-1957 CD set, which I think uses the same 1983-ish Capitol transfer that was used for the 1985 UK "Dell" LP, but with some oddball stereo widening added.
    •Don't Worry 'Bout Me: In every way, this seems to match the 1989 Walsh/Furmanek mastering....but it doesn't quite stay in sync. Waveforms look the same, the sound is the same, dynamics are the same...but sync is just barely off.
    •South of the Border: Reuses the Walsh mastering.

    (Thanks for sharing with us, Chuck!)

    Also, re: South of the Border

    MMM pointed out that the The Sinatra Touch LP was off pitch, and he was right. I't's about 37 cents (or 1/3rd of a half-step) sharp. I speed corrected it, and a lot of its charm disappeared, so I think that part of the appeal was just the fact that it was running slightly faster, so it sounded a little more peppy and bright.

    Also, in looking over the Japanese clips that Chuck sent, I re-visited the 1987 Walsh mastering, and you know, that's quite nice, so I've now marked the 1987 Walsh and 1990 Walsh/Furmanek as the best two masterings. YMMV!

    EDIT: One more (closing?) thought on that April 30 session: All four songs were well-mastered by the Walsh/Furmanek team, either for Collectors Series or The Capitol Years. Their excellent work is a great way to cover the songs cut in this session, IMO. (Keep it simple.)

    Matt
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013
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  11. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Matt, I have to compare them head to head, but do the "reuses" so far exactly match, or do they just sync?
     
  12. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    On the Walsh clones, phase scope readings looked the same, waveforms looked the same, and they sure sounded the same to me. On that "I've Got the World on a String" situation, as I said, they appear to use the same digital transfer, so they stay in sync, but after that, all bets are off. (That said, I didn't notice any tonal changes of note.)
     
  13. SinatraFan

    SinatraFan Well-Known Member

    Been listening to this 2-CD set and so far, I think it's excellent. The tracks are in mono (except for Put Your Dreams Away in stereo) and don't seem to be messed with. I immediately noticed the improvement over The Complete Capitol Singles box set. Along with the other MFP CD, Swing Easy/Songs For Young Lovers, I'm liking these UK remasters.
     
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  14. DLant

    DLant The Upstate Gort Staff

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Side note: I was pleasantly surprised when we were at the movies the other night watching We're The Millers and Sinatra's voice and Nelson Riddle's orchestra boomed through the theater playing "South Of The Border"
     
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  15. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Just saw an ESPN commercial for the US Open in which "Can I Steal a Little Love?" is the theme song!!!!! IMAGINE THAT???? Someone in the ESPN ad department is a Sinatraphile. You'd have to be to pick that song from the catalog. :sponge:
     
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  16. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
     
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  17. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    GREAT! Although I saw what must be the 30 sec. edition as Mr. S was heard far more than on that one. But at least y'all get the idea. I think it' swell!
     
  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Re: "Look Over Your Shoulder" and "South of the Border"

    Old Coder sent along clips from the unlicensed "Supreme Jazz" SACD, and clips are posted at the bottom of the page here and here.

    Re: Anytime, Anywhere

    This is the start of the new page for the May 2, 1953 session, and of the five versions we have to work with, the only second-tier choice is the Norberg, and even that one is "Norberg Lite." The others all seem to be excellent to my ears. Judge for yourself: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1953_-_SinglesEtc3.html

    (By the way, if somebody has an original 45, 78, or Look to Your Heart LP, or the 1984 UK Dell LP for this song, and might be able to submit a clip for comparison, please send me a private message. Thanks!)
     
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  19. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Thanks Matt. Virtually all of the "Anytime" versions are very nice, indeed. (What an underrated song/performance!) Looks like the MFSL will remain my go-to version. However, I'd love to hear an original pressing if someone comes up with one.
     
  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Too bad the edit in that song is so obvious....
     
  21. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    From those, I'd choose either the Mobile Fidelity or the NZ LP versions. I don't think one is totally superior to the other between the two.

    I don't see a link to the Capitol Singles clip, Matt.
     
  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    It's up now. Sorry!
     
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  23. kennyluc1

    kennyluc1 Frank Sinatra collector

    There are many collector's who believe that FS recorded a verse to the song "Don't Worry Bout Me. He actually sang the song with the verse in 1953 (England,) which was his first live performance of the song. Would love to hear the actual session.
     
  24. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    yeah, i posed this possibility up-thread here.
     
  25. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    P.S. Love your commentary on "garbage diving"! Hilarious.
     
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