Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality (and general discussion): Singles, Soundtracks, Etc.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Yeah, I pretty much agree with that. (The more soupy masterings that we know and love.....oof. Can't stand 'em!)

    As far as the stereo mixes above, I think I'd rank them this way, favorite to least favorite:

    1. Original mix - as mastered here by MFSL in '83. It's not heavy or bloated, unlike many masterings.
    2. 1991 remix. The brass sounds good; could be a little warmer, maybe, and the voice may be a little too stark/up-front, but it's not bad.
    3. 1990 The Capitol Years remix -- clear and dry. Maybe too much so. Good strings. Good brass tone.
    4. 1988 remix - Odd reverb choice. (Is that actual Capitol chamber reverb? Doesn't sound like it to me, but I may be wrong.)
    5. 1987 remix -- Lousy brass tone; the stereo is narrowed considerably. Balances are wacky. Bass levels help warm things up.
    6. 1999 remix -- Wow -- bass boost to the extreme, and noise reduction, to boot. Makes it sound like everybody's under a blanket -- except for the big brass bit in the middle of the clip, where the brass are artificially spread into stereo.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
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  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Continuing with Nice 'n' Easy (the song) stereo mixes, here's what's used where (pardon the grammar).

    (*Mastering reused -- If two masterings are identical, but with dynamic measurements of, say 0.2 dB measured RMS difference, I'm counting that as "mastering reused.")

    Original stereo mix -- all with strings on right, except as noted:
    •Pretty much any stereo LP or tape. (I can think of one exception, listed later in this post.)
    •Both of the Australian Nice 'n' Easy CDs (Axis/EMI #CDAX 701134 and EMI #7911492)
    •1991 20 Golden Greats CD - strings on left
    •1998 UK Nice 'n' Easy CD (in the boxed set)
    •2008 MFSL CD - mastering reused* on Come Fly Away
    2015 Ultimate Sinatra CDs

    1987 remix - strings on right (no mixing/mastering credit)
    •1987 UK/Canada(/Japan?) The Frank Sinatra Collection CD - mastering reused* on 1989 Japan Best Now CD

    1988 remix - strings on right (no mixing/mastering credit; possibly Larry Walsh)
    •1988 Nice 'n' Easy CD - mastering reused* on 1989 Japan All the Way: The Hit Collection CD
    •1989 Collectors Series CD, but with phase reversed, and possibly some very slight tweaking - mastering reused* on the 1996 Mastercard promo compilation CD, Nice 'n' Easy
    Reprocessed/EQd by Robert Norberg for 1989 Gold! CD

    1990 remix - strings on the left (Ron Furmanek and Larry Walsh)
    •1990 The Capitol Years LP and CD sets - CD mastering reused* on 1993 Holland The Classic Tracks, 1995 Sinatra 80th: All the Best, and 1998 36 All-Time Favorites
    •1996 Complete Capitol Singles Collection (negligibly tweaked by Robert Norberg)
    •2004 Taking a Chance on Love (tweaked)

    1991 remix - strings on the right (Larry Walsh)
    •1991 Nice 'n' Easy CD

    1999 remix - strings on the right (Robert Norberg)
    •1999 Nice 'n' Easy CD
    •2000 Classic Sinatra CD (slightly tweaked)

    Anything messed up? Anything I'm missing?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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  3. stevelucille

    stevelucille Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rochester, NY USA
    Wasn't there a 12 inch single version of Nice N Easy released maybe in the UK. I don't have it but I seem to remember it was well regarded. No idea but I assume it would be stereo.
     
  4. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    An alt. take was released on the 2007 CD, Romance: Songs from the Heart.
     
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  5. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
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  6. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
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  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Yes, and it uses the original stereo mix.
     
  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    I was surprised by a few things regarding that list of CD releases:

    1. Come Fly Away reused the MFSL CD mastering.
    2. Collectors Series was not newly remixed from scratch. Then again, the only other stereo track on Collectors Series was a tweaked version of an existing remix from the 1988 All the Way CD. (I think that the fact that the 1988 All the Way and Nice and Easy CDs had tracks that were re-used on 1989's Collectors Series, on which Larry Walsh receives a mastering credit, points pretty strongly to him being the remix engineer on those 1988 discs, which do not list the remix engineer.)
    3. The 1991 remix, which strikes me as being perhaps the best of the remix bunch, has perhaps never appeared anywhere else.
     
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  9. roda12

    roda12 WATERTOWN FOREVER

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Is there a listing of all the Capitol singles that were released with picture sleeves?
     
  10. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
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  11. roda12

    roda12 WATERTOWN FOREVER

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    So there were only 6(!) Capitol singles with pic sleeves in the U.S.???!
     
  12. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Usually reserved for EP issues in the Capitol timeframe:

    Frank Sinatra Extended Play (EP) Sleeves - The Experience

    Singles were usually stacked in racks behind the counters of US record stores, in plain generic sleeves.
     
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  13. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Senior Member

    Hey Bob, thanks for posting this last month on my birthday!!

    "Romance" is a nice nice nice compilation. I bought it last year, and I love to blast Track #1 out of my car CD player on a Friday!
    The Best Ever!

    :righton:

    -- David
     
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  14. roda12

    roda12 WATERTOWN FOREVER

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Wow, I totally missed that one! Thanks for that info!!!
     
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  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Going back to The Nearness of You, I need to apologize to @mahanusafa02! Way back in 2015, he sent me a clip from the 1990 Japanese Nice 'n' Easy CD -- the first digital release of The Nearness of You. I stumbled upon that file on a hard drive today, so I have updated the Nearness of You page on my website to include that version, which is a unique mastering of the original stereo mix. Thanks to mahanusafa02 for sharing; my apologies for being old and senile and not posting it earlier.

    Here's a clip, for those who don't want to dig through the webpage to find it: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1960_-_SinglesEtc49_files/NearnessofYouClip1989JapanCD.wav
    For comparison, here's the 1983 MFSL LP track: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1960_-_SinglesEtc49_files/NearnessofYouClipMFSL-GAIN_01.wav
    ...and the 1984 UK "Dell" LP: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1960_-_SinglesEtc49_files/NearnessofYouClipUK84-GAIN_01.wav (Thanks to @bferr1 for the clip.)

    Those are my top pics for "original stereo mix," FWIW.

    Also:
    It dawned on me that that's probably not true, as the reverb is different than that found on the Nice 'n' Easy album, and the limiter on the vocal track isn't set to "random freak out." Rather, I'm pretty sure that the "original mixes" for this track were those made specifically for Sinatra Sings...of Love and Things in 1962.

    (Side note: I am always grateful when people kindly share clips for comparison. If I ever fail to use something you send for my website, please rattle my cage! Things do fall through the cracks of my brain now and then.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
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  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Reaching way back to 1957 for an ad for an oldie:
    s-l1600-367.jpg
     
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  17. Beaneydave

    Beaneydave Forum Resident

    I love “ there’s a small hotel “



    Peace and love✌
     
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  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Yeah, that's a goodie. I remember the first copy of this album that I had (as a teenager -- another lifetime) was a poor sounding Italian pressing, and I played that track more than any other.

    (Sadly, this is one of those songs that, in my opinion, has yet to have a really good-sounding release. Lots of mediocre and poor ones out there.)
     
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  19. roda12

    roda12 WATERTOWN FOREVER

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    The whole album should have a really good-sounding release. Don't own one single copy that sounds good and I've got many! I remember there was a lot of talk about Nancy playing a new remastered version on her radio show. Did anyone of you guys hear that? How did it sound? Hope they will release it if it's an enhencement!
     
  20. roda12

    roda12 WATERTOWN FOREVER

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Oh, just received the album as a 45rpm album but haven't opened it yet because I'm saving it for my birthday:agree:
     
  21. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Not quite. What Chuck Granata put together for Nancy’s show was a combination of the original Capitol “soundtrack” LP with the Pal Joey tracks from the Frank Sinatra In Hollywood box set.

    Where separate studio recordings were used on the original LP, those were followed by the actual film versions. Besides any “remastering” Chuck may have done himself for the radio program, the only two Capitol vocals which were newly remastered for the box set were “I Didn’t Know What Tine It Was” (used partially in the film) and “Bewitched” (not sung by Frank in the film).

    This pseudo “Complete Restored Soundtrack” has been played in the Album Spotlight on two of the Nancy for Frank Sirius/XM shows—Aug. 7, 2016 and May 21, 2017.

    Track listing (Sinatra vocals in boldface)…

    Pal Joey (The "Complete Restored" Soundtrack)
    1. 1957 Promotional Trailer For Pal Joey (FS Narrates)
    2. Main Title (Instrumental)
    3. That Terrific Rainbow (Instrumental)
    4. I Didn’t Know What Time It Was (FS In Hollywood)
    5. Do It The Hard Way (Instrumental)
    6. Great Big Town (Instrumental)
    7. There’s A Small Hotel (FS Vocal - Soundtrack)
    8. There’s A Small Hotel (FS In Hollywood)
    9. Zip (Rita Hayworth Vocal)
    10. I Could Write A Book (FS Vocal - Soundtrack)
    11. I Could Write A Book (FS In Hollywood)
    12. Bewitched (Instrumental)

    13. Promotional Spots For Pal Joey (FS In Hollywood)
    14. The Lady Is A Tramp (Soundtrack - Capitol recording)
    15. The Lady Is A Tramp (FS In Hollywood)
    16. Plant You Now, Dig You Later (Instrumental)
    17. My Funny Valentine (Kim Novak - Soundtrack)
    18. You Mustn’t Kick It Around (Instrumental)
    19. Bewitched (FS - Capitol recording)
    20. Strip Number (Instrumental)
    21. Dream Sequence & Finale (FS In Hollywood)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2018
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  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Same as the soundtrack LP version, but not the same version (for the first 1:23 of the song) as heard in the film itself. (Repeating old news for many here, I realize.)
     
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  23. roda12

    roda12 WATERTOWN FOREVER

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Thanks so much Bob for this info!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2018
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  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Info about the odd recording history of I Didn't Know What Time It Was can be found on a dedicated web page, here, including:
    <<On this date, multi-track recording of “I Didn’t Know What Time It Was” covered three distinct musical segments (not implying that they were necessarily recorded separately):

    •Segment One: Vocal and piano only, rubato
    •Segment Two: Vocal and light orchestra (strings, some woodwinds, rubato)
    •Segment Three: Vocal and Big Band in full swing mode

    For the film itself, only segment three survived, as segments one and two were replaced with, unusually, a live-on-the-set-during-actual-filming rendition featuring only Sinatra and piano. (It was good luck, I guess, that Joey wound up working in a night club that used very expensive Altec 21b microphones for use in their PA system!) When segment three begins, the film version is lip-sync’d by Sinatra to the recording made today.

    Numerous and varied incarnations of today’s recording have been released on disc over the years, with wildly varied results.>>
     
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  25. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Gentlemen,

    May I direct your attention to my current avatar? 65 years ago today April 2, 1953 (it is already 4/2 in the world so this is current!) "The Rebirth" began at the Melrose Ave. studios of Capitol Records!!!!

    The greatest comeback in show business history had began.

    CELEBRATE!!!!!!:pineapple::goodie::tiphat::wiggle::shtiphat::targettiphat:
     

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