Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: Songs for Swingin' Lovers - Released 1956*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Dec 3, 2009.

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  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    I have published the first page of an audio samples page for SONGS FOR SWINGIN' LOVERS. Much more to follow, but it's a start. Please click here.

    Note: A clip is included from one of those European Dis*y releases. Let's not discuss that particular clip here on the forum.

    Matt

    PS - does anybody have either the 2004 CD release from the mini-box-set, or the British Centenary LP issue, or the 1984 Alan Dell LP issue? Or the possibly-different (I don't know) British CD that lists Walsh in the credits, from what I've heard? If so, please PM me. Thanks in advance! MUCH more to follow on this one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2016
    MLutthans, Dec 3, 2009
    #1
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  2. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    Matt I must be going nut's but I can't seem to find the link on your SFSL page to listen to the samples.
     
    hodgo, Dec 3, 2009
    #2
  3. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Hmmm....I just tried it and it worked fine, but I was having troubles earlier, too. Let me try it on my wife's computer and see what happens. The link is in the first post.

    Matt

    EDIT: just checked on my wife's computer, and the two audio samples are both playing fine.
     
    MLutthans, Dec 3, 2009
    #3
  4. Geoff

    Geoff Senior Member

    Location:
    Roundnabout
    It's a sad state of affairs when somebody like myself who never grew up with the vinyl versions hears the reverbed version as the 'normal' version. I need to retrain my ears...
     
    Geoff, Dec 3, 2009
    #4
  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Two brief clips have been added, comparing an original D9 pressing to the Furmanek/Walsh 1990 and Walsh 1987 CD issues.
     
    MLutthans, Dec 3, 2009
    #5
  6. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
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    Of that first batch of CD clips tonally the MFSL would be quite nice, it's just got too much reverb. For me it's a tossup between that and the original Walsh. The rest are fairly poor to worse.

    Furmanek/Walsh 'Capitol Years' clip compares well to the Scranton LP. Especially since it lacks the slightly honky midrange of of the original Capitol.
    I used to think it was just my LP's on my equipment that sounded like that, but listening to these samples, the peculiar quality of that midrange seems to be endemic to a lot of the old Capitol pressings.
     
    Greg1954, Dec 3, 2009
    #6
    otter likes this.
  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    I find the whole tone thing to be a real issue on this release, and that a very odd thing happens when you go from stereo listening to mono listening. For instance, in stereo, I don't like the 1987 Walsh very much -- too dark and hollow sounding to my ears. However, when I listen to that same Walsh in mono, a lot of the reverb disappears AND I think the tone has a subtle, pleasant warmth instead of the hollowness that I heard when I listened to the same recording in stereo. It's very weird!

    I also found that (again, to my ears) I prefer the tone quality (all other issues aside) of the D9 pressing to the Walsh/Furmanek, and that the 1987 Walsh was much closer in tone to that D9 than was the Walsh/Furmanek, and this is odd to me because I think the sound of the Furmanek-produced CDs (The Capitol Years, and Collector's Series) is, overall, absolutely top notch. I really admire the work they did, but this particular track has a bit of a sharp tone to it that I don't personally care for.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Dec 3, 2009
    #7
  8. musicmax

    musicmax New Member

    Location:
    Mount Holly, NC, USA
    Are you just hitting the mono button on your amp (i.e. folding down on-the-fly) or are you processing the .wav to remove differences between the L and R channels?
     
    musicmax, Dec 3, 2009
    #8
  9. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
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    I thought so too.

    Assuming the D9 was a straight transfer and didn't have any user added EQ. It's brighter than I would expect, but in a good way.

    As an aside, that dog of a SFSL CD done by Bob Norberg has the same horrible 99 dollar home theater receiver sounding reverb as is smeared all over the 'Sinatra's Swingin' Session' CD. Really grating.:realmad:
     
    Greg1954, Dec 3, 2009
    #9
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  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    I've wrapped up the CD section of the review. LPs still to come.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Dec 4, 2009
    #10
  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2016
    MLutthans, Dec 4, 2009
    #11
  12. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
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    On that batch of CD clips that are centered around the trombone solo, between MFSL and Walsh, I'm preferring the Walsh.
    The MFSL just sounds too bloated, and when the band asserts itself after the trombone solo, they should swing and rock like a ship on the stormy seas, which I hear more of from the Walsh, not so much from MFSL, which is kind of sluggish.
     
    Greg1954, Dec 4, 2009
    #12
  13. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
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    Of the LP samples posted below the CD samples above, I like 1 & 4 the best, as far as sounding tonally balanced and 'right.'

    # 2 is uncomfortably bright.
    # 3 sounds like some compression/limiting was added upon cutting.
    #5 has the most honk-y midrange, though it's the smoothest, goes down like buttah.
     
    Greg1954, Dec 4, 2009
    #13
  14. mbleicher1

    mbleicher1 Tube Amp Curmudgeon

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    Oh man…who knew the French pressings sounded so good??
     
    mbleicher1, Dec 4, 2009
    #14
  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    I'm just playing one channel (left in these cases).
     
    MLutthans, Dec 4, 2009
    #15
  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Preach it, my French brother!

    I've got several more LP samples to go through, and I have not listened to them carefully yet myself, so I'm curious to hear how that French copy stands up to what's still to be played. I've got a French SLEEP WARM by Dean Martin that's excellent.

    ....and I kid you not, with some EQ, there is a GREAT sound buried in that German pressing. Seriously. I'm not kidding.

    I'm out of town today, so my time is limited. If I have a chance later tonight (late, late tonight), I'll add some more samples.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Dec 4, 2009
    #16
  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    1 & 4 are my favorites of those 5, too, but 4 is a fairly distant 2nd.

    ....and on the CDs, in case it's not obvious, I'm right on the fence on that one. I've currently got about one extra toenail on the MFSL side, but I may be swayed before I'm through.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Dec 4, 2009
    #17
  18. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    It should blow the roof off. The tampered dub tape seems to have some compression or limiting added to it. It doesn't rise in volume as the middle section begins to build like on THE CAPITOL YEARS 3 disc set or even the Walsh version of the whole album. The '87, flawed as it is, comes from the correct tapes, so it's going to be better in at least this regard.
     
    MMM, Dec 4, 2009
    #18
  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Below: 4 versions of verse 2, instrumental (with big crescendo), and following verse. Order is: Furmanek/Walsh 90; Walsh 87; MFSL CD; Gray Label LP. Measuring RMS (not peak), there is actually a .5 dB greater difference from the first two seconds of the crescendo to the first two seconds of the trombone solo on the MFSL than there is on the Furmanek/Walsh 1990 mastering...but numbers certainly do not always translate to how something sounds! Take it for what it's worth.
     

    Attached Files:

    MLutthans, Dec 5, 2009
    #19
  20. stevelucille

    stevelucille Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rochester, NY USA
    Once again an outstanding job on these samples!!! This is a huge service to anyone looking to find the best sounding version of these titles. I for one will be going back to these pages often. Who knew that German copy could sound so good? Or the French one too!

    Thanks again for all your hard work.
     
    stevelucille, Dec 5, 2009
    #20
  21. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa I'm an ear sitting in the sky

    Location:
    USA
    Thanks for your oustanding work here.
     
    aoxomoxoa, Dec 5, 2009
    #21
  22. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    :righton:
     
    rangerjohn, Dec 5, 2009
    #22
  23. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    Matt, thanks. What portion of the song is that for, time wise? Not sure if we're thinking of exactly the same section/length.
     
    MMM, Dec 5, 2009
    #23
  24. Hamhead

    Hamhead The Bear From Delaware

    Location:
    Wilmington, Delaware
    Great work!

    The reason for the "fake" stereo on the '87 and MFSL discs (like most of Capitol's mono recordings) were played back on a stereo machine. Why?, to make it sound more spacious, live, or airy, or the simple case of "we don't have a 1/4 inch mono head around here so we have to use what's around". It's definatly NOT Duophonic. If you want to hear it, I have SFSL in all of it's Duophonic glory, think of 3 tape machines going out of sync blended with reverb.

    One thing...
    The 1961 version of the album (along with "Wee Small Hours") were pruned down to 12 tracks. If MFSL used this tape, what source did they use for the remaining three songs.
     
    Hamhead, Dec 6, 2009
    #24
  25. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Anybody have the 1984 UK Dell LP, or either of these British issues, below?
     

    Attached Files:

    MLutthans, Dec 6, 2009
    #25
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