Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: Songs for Swingin' Lovers - Released 1956*

Tom Campbell · Dec 17, 2015

Bob F said: ↑

I've always believed it was because Frank seemed less aloof looking toward, instead of away from, the couple.

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Could well be, but I always assumed (based on no actual information, mind you) that Mr. S was not necessarily happy with the original illustration. The second effort, certainly, is more flattering.

mpayan · Dec 17, 2015

Tom Campbell said: ↑

Could well be, but I always assumed (based on no actual information, mind you) that Mr. S was not necessarily happy with the original illustration. The second effort, certainly, is more flattering.
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I agree with your last sentence. I dislike that original depiction of Mr Sinatra. Doesnt even look like Frank. Looks goofy. But, I understand why many wanted it on the mfsl and probably want it on this new lp reissue.

If the new reissue does end up sounding really nice, lets just hope they dont goof up and cut an intro off or something.

MMM · Jan 12, 2016

Today is the 60th anniversary of "I've Got You Under My Skin" being recorded. Take out the MoFi hybrid disc (or the best copy you have) and play that mother loud.

paulmock · Jan 12, 2016

MMM said: ↑

Today is the 60th anniversary of "I've Got You Under My Skin" being recorded. Take out the MoFi hybrid disc (or the best copy you have) and play that mother loud.
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OHYUOUBETCHA!!!!!!

DLant · Jan 12, 2016

MMM said: ↑

Today is the 60th anniversary of "I've Got You Under My Skin" being recorded. Take out the MoFi hybrid disc (or the best copy you have) and play that mother loud.
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Yes sir!

Might even do some air trombone along with Milt's solo.

Richard--W · Jan 12, 2016

MMM said: ↑

Today is the 60th anniversary of "I've Got You Under My Skin" being recorded. Take out the MoFi hybrid disc (or the best copy you have) and play that mother loud.
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Best suggestion I've heard all day.

Francisx · Jan 12, 2016

Ahhh.....wonderful !

MLutthans · Jan 12, 2016

DLant said: ↑

Yes sir!

Might even do some air trombone along with Milt's solo.
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Might go grab the trombone and scare the cat! Nah....

A landmark recording (even by Sinatra standards), well worth celebrating.

MLutthans · Jan 12, 2016

MLutthans said: ↑

Sure, although it's strictly an opinion, with a few facets in no particular order:

1. The US pressings seemed to be really all over the map, but all with in about a 20% range, i.e., the best US pressing is 10% "better" than an average-sounding one, and the worst that we sampled was about 10% worse -- but all were pretty good. I thought that the EQ'd sample from salleno sounded gorgeous, and I'm guessing that any of the USA samples could be EQd to produce a result that's in that ballpark. (Keep in mind, too, that we are hearing these samples from a variety of turntables/styli, so if the tone is not "perfect" on a given sample compared to another, at least some of that difference may be attributable to the stylus used.)

2. If comparing mint copies to mint copies directly from a turntable, not from some altered, EQ'd CD-R/digital copy, I'm quite confident that the best sounding versions would be original "D" Capitol pressings, such as the D9 that stevelucille shared with us.

3. It's very hard to really get a definitive "read" on this album in terms of sound. There are some very quiet parts and some very aggressive sections with driving brass and rhythm. For instance, I thought the French pressing (which I believe was "D" sourced and merely pressed in France) sounded gorgeous in the quieter parts, but really lost it's praiseworthiness on the double- and triple-forte sections, as evidenced here specifically. Also, Frank's vocals do not strike me as being very warm when compared to the vocal sound on, say, Songs for Young Lovers. I think that Walsh tried to compensate for this, and the results were mixed. I wouldn't call it a flaw in the original recording, per se, but a recording decision that is not especially to my liking. (I'm at a loss to explain what caused it. Could be something as simple as a use of different tape stock.)

4. The vocal quality seems to get glassy-er or more razor-like (albeit subtly so) once we get to the reverbed tapes, circa 1961/62. I'm not saying that it gets horrific, just subtly less pleasant, to my ears. These are the tapes that MFSL used for both the LP and CD. The LP seems to have a warmer EQ applied than does their gold CD, and that's a help. I'm actually rather fond of the MFSL pressing. I'm used to it, and even after all these years, the vinyl sounds mint. (I used no de-clicking on those MFSL samples -- didn't need to. Their SuperVinyl deserved to be called such!

5. The added reverb on this title is pretty subtle when you compare it to what was done to, say, Swing Easy, which had a true slathering of the stuff! Because of that, the MFSL, even though it uses the "reverbed tapes," does not come off poorly at all; just not "as good."

6. I think that anybody who added the MFSL to their collection would be quite happy to have it, and it's a very pleasant listen on the whole, but because it does have that added reverb, I can't really place it in the absolute top echelon and still be able to sleep at night.

7. The German LP, played straight off the turntable, is pretty poor, frankly, but it has one big thing going for it that no other copies in this survey have: It is 100% dry. I believe -- based on what I've heard with my own ears, including what I presented in the "One Final Reverb Check" section here plus some other spot-checking I did -- that *every* USA issue of this complete album from day one had a TOUCH of reverb added to it. If you compare the D1 EP or the D5 or the D9 or any of the other "vintage" USA pressings to the Furmanek-produced version, which I'm certain was from the true original tape, you will hear a very slightly higher reverb level on the originals than on the Furmanek, and I don't have any reason to believe that Mr. Furmanek was "sucking reverb off the tape" through any sort of digital trickery. Also, the fact that this 1950s German pressing matches the Furmanek-disc reverb levels precisely tells me that there has existed a "drier" tape all along. (If you are playing the comparisons on the car stereo or over "computer speakers," the difference may not be apparent, but over headphones or "hi fi" speakers, it is clearly there, IMO.) You could create -- and others clearly have created -- a very high quality CD-R from a vintage USA pressing with very minor (if any) EQ, but it would not be as dry as the German version -- but very close! Also, there is an argument to be made that the release of the 100% dry German version was a MISTAKE and was not what was intended, as it appears to be an anomaly. It all boils down to personal preference, in my opinion. Look at NICE & EASY. Somebody at some point made the decision to release that LP buried in reverb. Personally, I think a much drier version would be a vast improvement. Is that artistic revisionism? Sure. Is it superior? For me, definitely! For you... that's your call.

8. Back to the MFSL LP: I think that it's more pleasant than the MFSL CD in terms of overall tone, and a very good presentation of the material, just not a "technically correct" presentation. Ever watch a movie at home? SHAME ON YOU! That movie was meant to be seen in a theatre....but it can still be really good at home. Same deal here. It's not quite as intended, but still quite good on its own terms, IMO.

9. One more note about the added reverb. Adding reverb affects more than just how much reverb you perceive. It can affect overall tone, blend, and dynamics. Maybe adding 2% reverb isn't a big deal as far as the reverb goes, but if that 2% reverb causes the tone to be, say, 1% worse, and the blend to be 1% worse, and the dynamics to be a little less impressive, suddenly you have a release that, through subtle manipulation on one front that subtly affected other fronts, is maybe 4 or 5% worse overall. You probably won't even notice it on its own terms, but if you actually compare carefully you may find that you just don't enjoy one version of the album as much as another, and it may be because of all those nearly-imperceptible alterations that add up to have an affect on the overall enjoyment of the album.

Matt
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By the way: Since the post I've quoted here (which dates back over six years) was recently "liked," I think I should point out that in terms of sound quality on this album, something has changed, and that something is the new (2014) MFSL release. Just get that, and life will be good. Somebody (MFSL in this case) finally really nailed it where this album is concerned.

Ronald Sarbo · Jan 13, 2016

He looked like a Rabbi officiating at a wedding in Brooklyn on the first cover.

DmitriKaramazov · Jan 13, 2016

MMM said: ↑

Today is the 60th anniversary of "I've Got You Under My Skin" being recorded. Take out the MoFi hybrid disc (or the best copy you have) and play that mother loud.
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Yeah! YEAH!

I celebrated by blasting the live version (Vegas 1966 w/ Count Basie orchestra) out of my car stereo!! LOUD! "We gonna take this building and move it 3 feet thataway! Hold on to your handbags!"

In any format, in any recording, studio or live, Sinatra always ALWAYS did a fabulous performance of this song.

This past summer, as a relatively new (and besotted) Sinatra fan, I did an individual study of Songs for Swingin' Lovers. I have the Larry Walsh mix and also bought the MOFI disc.

My conclusion? It's the greatest album of the 20th century.* YEAH!
It's not just great, but insanely great. "You're Getting to Be a Habit with Me", "I Thought About You", "Too Marvelous for Words" ..... every song on this album is a masterpiece -- no filler!!! Perfect song sequencing; perfect flow from start to end. The perfect album. These Sinatra / Riddle performances represent a musical Mt. Everest!

(* The only exceptions I'll allow -- for me -- are other Sinatra albums LOL)

bozburn · Jan 13, 2016

DmitriKaramazov said: ↑

"You're Getting to Be a Habit with Me"
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One of the greatest endings to a vocal arrangement I've ever heard. Strings --> Bass+Harp --> Pluck!

RelayerNJ · Jan 29, 2016

The new reissue of this just came out on LP. Is this new Sinatra LP reissue campaign generally well received? I'm bummed there's no more mofis!

MarkusGermany · Jan 29, 2016

The new remastered version is now in the German iTunes store. I won't get it - I have the fantastic MFSL SACD!

teag · Jan 29, 2016

The MFSL SACD is certainly fantastic (I bought 2, just in case). The newly released vinyl is now out and it will be interesting to see how it sounds. One thing I worry about is the length of music that will have to go on each side. Well over the optimal (according to Kevin Gray) 17-18 minutes I believe. The MFSL Silver box version is so so IMO. Here's hoping for the new one to excel!

rxcory · Jan 29, 2016

I have the 2104 MFSL SACD and an original Capitol D pressing LP, I'm happy!

teag · Jan 29, 2016

rxcory said: ↑

I have the 2104 MFSL SACD and an original Capitol D pressing LP, I'm happy!
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Nice. How do the 2 compare? Do they sound similar at all?

rxcory · Jan 29, 2016

teag said: ↑

Nice. How do the 2 compare? Do they sound similar at all?
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I think so, especially in terms of tone and dynamic range. My LP is in very good condition given its age and I still put it on when I want the romance of spinning a record (this is my significant other's favorite Sinatra record) but the MFSL SACD is just a hair more detailed, clear, crisp, while maintaining all the pleasant tone and sound quality of the D pressing. If MFSL had had the chance to issue their LP as well in 2014 as originally planned, how cool that would have been.

RogerB · Jan 29, 2016

I also have the MFSL SACD and agree it sounds wonderful! Last night I ordered the MFSL SACD's of No One Cares and Point Of
No Return!! Never heard either one of those albums so really looking forward to getting them!!

This Sinatra trip I'm on is a fun one indeed!!!

rxcory · Jan 29, 2016

RogerB said: ↑

I also have the MFSL SACD and agree it sounds wonderful! Last night I ordered the MFSL SACD's of No One Cares and Point Of
No Return!! Never heard either one of those albums so really looking forward to getting them!!

This Sinatra trip I'm on is a fun one indeed!!!
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If you like Songs For Swingin' Lovers and don't already have A Swingin' Affair, I most highly recommend that one too.
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-100489...umbered-limited-edition-hybrid-mono-sacd.aspx

Beaneydave · Jan 29, 2016

I think Swingin' Affair is a better album IMO.

Peace and love✌

teag · Jan 29, 2016

Beaneydave said: ↑

I think Swingin' Affair is a better album IMO.

Peace and love✌
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Thats nice. But they are both great albums. No reason not to enjoy them both.

MLutthans · Jan 29, 2016

teag said: ↑

The MFSL SACD is certainly fantastic (I bought 2, just in case). The newly released vinyl is now out and it will be interesting to see how it sounds. One thing I worry about is the length of music that will have to go on each side. Well over the optimal (according to Kevin Gray) 17-18 minutes I believe.
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It's a full-ish disc, yes, but it's also mono, so optimal running times are different.

teag said: ↑

The MFSL Silver box version is so so IMO. Here's hoping for the new one to excel!
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The MFSL box LP is mastered from wrong tapes (reverb added).

rxcory said: ↑

I have the 2104 MFSL SACD and an original Capitol D pressing LP, I'm happy!
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teag said: ↑

Nice. How do the 2 compare? Do they sound similar at all?
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rxcory said: ↑

I think so, especially in terms of tone and dynamic range. My LP is in very good condition given its age and I still put it on when I want the romance of spinning a record (this is my significant other's favorite Sinatra record) but the MFSL SACD is just a hair more detailed, clear, crisp, while maintaining all the pleasant tone and sound quality of the D pressing. [....]
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I agree with rxcory's sentiment here, and if you want to actually a bit of what he's talking about, I have audio clips from six (!) different "D"-cut original LPs plus the MFSL hybrid disc here.

teag · Jan 29, 2016

MLutthans said: ↑

It's a full-ish disc, yes, but it's also mono, so optimal running times are different.The MFSL box LP is mastered from wrong tapes (reverb added).

I agree with rxcory's sentiment here, and if you want to actually a bit of what he's talking about, I have audio clips from six (!) different "D"-cut original LPs plus the MFSL hybrid disc here.
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Thanks - I will listen to those. Regarding the optimal running time for a side of an LP, I was unaware it is different for mono. What is the optimal running time for mono?

RogerB · Jan 29, 2016

rxcory said: ↑

If you like Songs For Swingin' Lovers and don't already have A Swingin' Affair, I most highly recommend that one too.
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-100489...umbered-limited-edition-hybrid-mono-sacd.aspx
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I've got that one rxcory!!! Excellent indeed!!! Also have Where Are You which might be my favorite!!! Lonely Town sends chills down my spine!!!

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