Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: Songs for Swingin' Lovers - Released 1956*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Dec 3, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. kennyluc1

    kennyluc1 Frank Sinatra collector

    For all my buddies on the forum, today I was listening to the unreleased Come Dance with Me session of Sept 30, 1958
    and, comparing the titles to the later released recordings, but, I also listened to "I Thought About You "
    from Songs For Swingin' Lovers and remembered that there is a earlier recording for comparison.
    I have to say that the 2 different Nelson Riddle arrangements of the same song within a year is comparable
    to the 58 sessions with Billy May for the Come Dance With Me album. Anyway my point is how do the 2 recordings
    size up to you ? I prefer the 55 riddle arrangement of I Thought About You. any opinions would be fun to hear.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2016
    DmitriKaramazov likes this.
  2. profholt82

    profholt82 Resident Blowhard

    Location:
    West Michigan
    Does anyone know if the late 70s Capitol reissue with the yellow label is truncated?
     
  3. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter


    Yes, and (IIRC) wet.
     
  4. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Using very, very broad strokes, my thoughts are:
    •Frank wanted more subtlety, not less, on Songs for Swingin' Lovers, which was all about color, restraint, and shimmer, with only very brief "release the hounds" moments (arguably only one such moment). That big trumpet buildup on the session linked above was too "standard issue" to fit, so was redone (and, IMO, improved upon).
    •For Come Dance with Me, I think it was just the opposite: Billy wrote some arrangements with all the "fun stuff," i.e., tuba, bells, marimbas, timpani, elastic tempi, dynamic fits and starts, and the usual heavy dose of sly, understated Billy May humor, and Frank said, "Screw that subtle stuff; I want a stripped-to-basics big band that's going to swing like a mother." "Vocals that Dance" -- indeed! The "drive" on that album is incessant and undeniable, while the September session produced tracks that were kind of a Billy May take on SFSL.

    By and large, I think these were probably the right things to do. That said, I love the September CDWM songs, and wonder how great -- albeit immeasurably different -- an album of similar arrangements could have been. As much as I like the album that resulted, I wonder if the album that did not materialize may have been even better, despite not being hyped up on overdrive. It definitely would have lost some of its urgency, but may have picked up some needed color, variety, etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2016
    MMM, rangerjohn, rxcory and 5 others like this.
  5. kennyluc1

    kennyluc1 Frank Sinatra collector

    The September session has very different colors and instrumentation than the December sessions.
    ON some of the CDWM the marimba is prominent.
     
  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Re: The Come Dance with Me sessions:
    ??????
    Not on the actual album tracks from December.
     
  7. kennyluc1

    kennyluc1 Frank Sinatra collector

    NO I Meant the September session, a whole album with that sound would have been such a contrast to CDWM.
     
    MLutthans likes this.
  8. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Shawn Britton of Mobile Fidelity, who mastered the fabulous hybrid disc of this album, talks about the SWINGIN' LOVERS! masters (among other things):

     
    teag, mikrt17, rangerjohn and 2 others like this.
  9. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Thanks! Interesting stuff especially about SFSL. However, I question the part about the cover artwork/photo restoration. MoFi's LP's of Sinatra & Strings, This Time I'm Swingin! by Dean immediately come to mind.
     
    rangerjohn likes this.
  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    From January, 2016:
    ^^^^^^^^^Regarding all my blather (especially the first couple of paragraphs) from nearly a year ago: It falls in line very well with a recently-shared interview with Sean R. Britton at MFSL regarding SFSL:
    <<The splices had dried out -- the adhesive on the splicing tape -- so each splice had to be reconstructed….In the case of the Sinatra it added weeks onto the total project to do those, and sometimes just accessing those tapes, finding them…in that case it took years to find those phonoreels, then assemble a master from those takes, and because when you cut a record it's from a contiguous groove from the outer to the inner edge of the record, they had to be spliced together accordingly, and then, at the end of the project, Capitol Records requested that we put the tapes back in their original condition* rather than keeping them as full production masters so that they could use them in the future. They wanted them put back, restored to their original condition*, which, to me, was a huge waste of -- it had to all be put back the way it was, but, of course, in better condition because I replaced all the splices on those tapes.>>
    (Interview conducted by George McClure of ListenUp TV, uploaded May 28, 2015.)

    *I think that by "condition" (in the two instances marked with * above) he means "status" in reference to physical location on particular reels, not whether or not the tapes had been damaged. Likewise, when discussing splices, he says "it added weeks to the project to do those," I don't think he means that it literally took weeks just to make splices. Rather, I suspect that it took weeks to get everything in order to create a usable master, i.e., waiting for tapes to arrive, evaluating tapes, splicing tapes, sequencing tapes, then un-splicing sequenced tapes, removing songs from the temporarily-assembled master reel, returning songs to the reels where they were found, etc.

    (Thanks to @MMM who shared the interview via private message last night and has now posted the interview above.)
     
  11. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    OK...so what did UMe use to make the LP sound so great? Did they not use the original tapes?
     
  12. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    I've said before that I'm pretty sure that the excellent UMe LP is sourced from the excellent MFSL hybrid CD or files related to the creation of said CD. If, during the process of creating the MFSL version, masters for individual songs were gathered together from assorted reels, spliced together to create some sort of "running master," then DIS-assembled upon return to Capitol, then there is, once again, no set of "contiguous running masters" for side one and side two, so unless Capitol once again went to the trouble of gathering up those tapes and creating a new pair of masters (side one, side two), then it seems like a no-brainer that the new LP is just cut from the beautifully made digital files that resulted from the MFSL project. Works for me! It sounds great!
     
    teag, paulmock and Simon A like this.
  13. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Then may they PLEASE do the exact same thing for Swingin' Affair! Santa....hear me? PLEASE???????
     
    MLutthans likes this.
  14. chacha

    chacha Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    mill valley CA USA
    Forgive my ignorance, but what is the UMe LP?
    Thanks
     
  15. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    New 180g vinyl LP released in January 2016 by Universal Music Enterprises (Capitol label).

    Frank Sinatra Shop: Songs For Swingin' Lovers LP »
     
    paulmock likes this.
  16. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    It's the LP released earlier this year as part of the Sinatra 100th B-day release series. Great mono sound as Matt states above. It has a Capitol label. Available everywhere.
     
    chacha and paulmock like this.
  17. chacha

    chacha Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    mill valley CA USA
    Cool. I have a Capitol gray label that sounds really good. Is this new one possibly better?
     
  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    My take, from the website:
    Screen shot 2016-12-07 at 12.12.12 PM.png
    Lots of clips at that link, so you can do some comparing for yourself. To my ears, the 2016 LP is the best the album has ever sounded on LP.
     
  19. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Thats it! I'm putting it on the table right now!!
     
    paulmock likes this.
  20. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    See Matt's reply. Take it from me, he knows and you can go with his recommendations. Go to this site and you can get all the information Matt has posted on the FS Capitol music. Fantastic site:

    Welcome Sinatra Cole »
     
    chacha, paulmock, Bob F and 1 other person like this.
  21. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Thanks for posting this. It's great to hear someone from MFSL talk - they seem pretty mysterious up to now. I love their LP's/SACDs, both the music and the covers. They are a first class company.
     
    MMM likes this.
  22. JP Christian

    JP Christian Forum Resident

    I bought the 2016 UMe 'Swingin Lovers' LP, and some of the Reprise titles- all really good - I'm tempted to get the new press of 'Wee Small Hours' - I wonder will it be as excellent? I thought I was done as far as the Capitol LPs were concerned as I have the 1984/85 Alan Dell mastered 20LP box set - have they re-released all of the Capitol and Reprise LPs? Could get expensive...
     
  23. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Wee Small sounds excellent on the new release! Better than the Dell or the MFSL Silver box IMO.
     
    JP Christian and paulmock like this.
  24. JP Christian

    JP Christian Forum Resident

    I can get it for £9.99 on amazon UK, so for that money I might as well pick it up...
     
    teag likes this.
  25. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Sinatra Family Forum: UK Vinyl Releases »
     
    JP Christian likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine