Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: "Where Are You?" (1957 album)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Jan 13, 2010.

  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    It is interesting that they are not truly identical.
     
  2. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
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  3. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    It may have to do with the accuracy of the rips and/or the treatment of gaps ("rills") in the files. FWIW, my DR report for the original 1991 Walsh CD (Capitol CDP 7 91209 2) matches Joel's PRECISELY. I'm using EAC in secure mode with leading/trailing silence included, and the TT DR Offlne Meter 1.4, on a Windows XP PC.
     
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  4. OnTheRoad

    OnTheRoad Not of this world

    In that post #543 you referenced....you mentioned how you thought some of the '98 Jazz Heritage releases might be a later mastering. Well...at least the 'Where are You?" is that same as the '91 Walsh. And I used the exact same TT DR meter AND my offline XP PC as well, however I use Plextools as my DAE...good to know at least that process was consistent and showed consistent results. Thanks for the chime in !
     
  5. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    My suggestion/guess that the Jazz Heritage releases "might" be the later (Bob Norberg) masterings was based on the 1998 date and the fact that the later release of In the Wee Small Hours (which was being discussed) erroneously credited Larry Walsh in its booklet. The same error did NOT occur with Where Are You?, so based on your report, there is no doubt that the JH issue of this title was a duplicate of the earlier (and far superior) Walsh mastering.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  6. Nathen

    Nathen Forum Resident

    I already have the Walsh of this and I've been reading through these threads for a long time now trying to decide whether or not to get the MFSL SACD too.
    If you had to have one, between the stereo Walsh CD and the MFSL Mono, which would you choose?
     
  7. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    MoFi SACD! :)
     
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  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    You can listen to some clips of the MFSL mono version here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1957_-_Where_Are_You_3.html, if that helps, and all of my yada yada summary of my own views here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1957_-_Where_Are_You3_2.html. The overall gist of that page is that the MFSL mono and Walsh stereo are really co-winners, and they are literally separate recordings, not merely different mixes. I have all the mixes/releases, and the two you mentioned are both excellent. I prefer this particular album in stereo, but that's strictly my personal preference. (That said, I do not care for the very common, LP stereo mix, which is poorly done. The open reel mix is best, but abridged, and the Walsh remix is also excellent, and complete, which counts for a lot!)
     
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  9. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    My personal preference is the MFSL mono (which I shall be playing through my new valve amp today), the Walsh Stereo is also excellent, the great thing about these is as Matt says, they are completely different recordings of the same performances with each having their own special moments.
     
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  10. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    I agree with you that the Walsh remix is really nicely done, however after hearing the clip from the open reel on Matt's ever resourceful site, I became obsessed with that alternate Stereo mix (like some people do about Quad mixes of their favourite 70's Rock albums). I was finally able to get my hands on not only the elusive ZD-17 reel but also the ZD-21 The Stars In Stereo which contains "I'm A Fool To Want You", one of the tracks that was cut from the ZD-17. I have yet to have these babies transferred to Hi-Rez, but I'm really happy to have them.

    Questions for all the Capitol historians, are the two missing cuts from this abridged version available anywhere else. The missing cuts are "The Night We Called It A Day" & "I Cover The Waterfront".

    One more question, but related to the Walsh remix. Are the tracks from the album that are featured on the The Capitol Years 3 CD set the same remixed versions as the album CD version?
     
  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Nope. :thumbsdow

    There's also YET ANOTHER early stereo mix of "I'm a Fool to Want You" on the stereo LP (not reel) version of the Stars in Stereo compilation.
    Paging Dr. Melucci....
     
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  12. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    I'd have to compare, though by memory they sounded alike. That said, the dates given on the discs for the work being done are different.
     
  13. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    That would be the title track and "I'm a Fool to Want You." They are identical.
     
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  14. ShockControl

    ShockControl Bon Vivant and Raconteur!

    Location:
    Lotus Land
    I have heard only one stereo mix of this album, the one on the LP. The rhythm section, which is playing lightly as it is, is almost inaudible. I have always preferred the mono mix for that reason.

    Are there subsequent stereo mixes in which the rhythm section has more presence?
     
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  15. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Not to the degree it does on the mono, where it's dialed in levels wise just so. It's not possible for the stereo version to do it, though on the 2 track reel mix the bass has a "big" presence. That doesn't mean unbalanced, just differently balanced/felt, and how it relates re the album's overall sound.
     
  16. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
  17. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Location:
    Athens, Tennessee
    McLover's law! Walsh always beats Norberg (I could likely master some of Bob Norberg's FS discs better drunk from 5th generation worn out safety dubs) (Cue Grins)
     
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  18. stevelucille

    stevelucille Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rochester, NY USA
    I really like this photo. To me it captures FS in the studio perfectly (or at least how I imagine it was!)
     
  19. RelayerNJ

    RelayerNJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    Whippany, NJ
    Picked up MFSL Where Are You? Lp and is fantastic!!
     
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  20. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    Completely gratuitous bump here because I'm listening to the Walsh remix at the moment and it just made me remember how much I love this album. I too am fond of the open reel dedicated mix, but the Walsh CD will always have a special place in my collection. Luscious sonics on this baby!
     
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  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Mr. Postman delivered this from over the pond yesterday (photos lifted from Discogs.com):
    R-5120983-1385060963-8073.jpeg R-5120983-1385060972-2147.jpeg
    Very nice stereo sound! First impression: I'm impressed.
    I think this is the fourth or fifth of these 1970s Dutch pressings that I have from this series, but the first one to have that green label. Wouldn't that place this back around 1971/72????
     
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  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    I've added a clip from the 1970s Dutch LP in the "stereo LPs" section under the "Third set (12 song pressings)" subsection: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1957_-_Where_Are_You_2_3.html

    If you don't want to dig for it, here's the clip, starting with the MFSL stereo LP from 1983, then transitioning into this 1970s Dutch LP: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1957_-_Where_Are_You_2_3_files/WhereAreYouMFSL-DutchStory.wav (This 70-second clip falls within the freely available 90-second clip available at iTunes.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
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  23. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Not bad, Matt - a little opaque, but pleasant enough sounding overall. Thanks!
     
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  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    For those who are following the Sinatra Singles thread:

    You may see that we are not all that far off from reaching sessions for Where Are You, which is a good time to perhaps re-visit or re-update the WHERE ARE YOU pages a bit. (Link)

    Here's a review of what I currently have at my disposal, either via my own collection of via clips previously shared by other members here:

    Mono LP: (All side one numbers) D1, D7, N8, D10, "UK Original," MFSL

    Stereo LP: Stars in Stereo LP (for "I'm a Fool to Want You" only), c. 1978 Dutch pressing from the "The Frank Sinatra Story" series, 1984 Dutch DMM cut, 1984 UK non-DMM cut, D20, 1969 UK, N11, MFSL, 1980's green-label US pressing (SN-series, I think)

    Reel-to-Reel: ZD-17 2-track; Stars in Stereo 2-track reel (for "I'm a Fool to Want You" only), mid-60s Y2W-series 4-track

    CD/Hybrid: MFSL mono, 1988 Japanese CP-28 release, Walsh remix, Norberg version, UK boxed set

    If anybody would like to submit any corrections, this is a little "heads up" that we'll be back on this album (briefly) in the not too distant future, and new submissions are always welcomed!
     
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  25. OnTheRoad

    OnTheRoad Not of this world

    Looking at the 1988 Japanese Capitol/Toshiba release....the mastering is different, not just 'loudened' but totally different dynamics.

    http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/50145

    I would guess :nyah: then the Japanese cd it's NOT a Larry Walsh mastering. Was there a 1987 Capitol Walsh mastering that's different than the Capitol 1991 one ? According to discogs, there doesn't appear to be an earlier cd release.

    http://www.discogs.com/Frank-Sinatra-Where-Are-You/master/137979


    By the way, another thing I noticed...the 1987 listed and 1991 Capitol cd releases of Nice and Easy have different DR values. ...the '91 tweaked, not as loud as the 1988 mastering. It's like the Wee Small Hours release...the early Nice and Easy '88 has less tracks (12) and the '91 has 16. The mastering differences are enough to make me wonder if they're both Walsh masterings...any idea ?

    http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=frank sinatra&album=nice 'N' easy

    http://www.discogs.com/Frank-Sinatra-Nice-N-Easy/master/144077
     

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