Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: "Where Are You?" (1957 album)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Jan 13, 2010.

  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    As some of you may recall, the 2-track 7.5 ips stereo reel-to-reel tape, catalog #ZD-17, has a fantastic sounding, unique stereo mix, never heard on LP or CD, but does not contain all 12 songs. One of the missing songs, "I'm a Fool to Want You" appeared around the same time on a Capitol sampler tape called "Stars in Stereo," again with a unique stereo mix. I have purchased two copies of STARS IN STEREO, and both have been defective ONLY on the Sinatra track. I'm thinking that this problem may affect all copies, as further evidenced by Ebay seller Paulroark's comments within his sale of this item, currently viewable here:
    Screen shot 2011-11-08 at 9.31.14 AM.gif 519874577_tp.jpg 519874607_tp.jpg 519874625_tp.jpg
     
    rxcory likes this.
  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    ...also, can somebody (MMM???) chime in on rangerjohn's question? Both Chris and I "think" Walsh's CD is No-Noised, but I'd like to hear other opinions.

     
  3. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    I'll give a listen on this point later.
     
  4. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    Back. The '91 Capitol does have some NR; it's not heavy (you can still hear hiss) but it's doing something funny with the treble here and there. The UK CD (in the box) is free of this. But you know we can't have it that simple. The NR is not the decisive point here, IMH. The '91 Capitol is more dynamic and has a nicer vocal tone. The UK CD has a harder, steelier, more compressed sound. The 'verb differs. Matter of taste as to which one would prefer.
     
    McLover likes this.
  5. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Uh! That is so disappointing. It would have been a perfect compliment to that lovely WRU? R2R. But certainly there must be one in good shape out there. One can hope....
     
  6. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Just as an FYI...I got my hands on a mint LP of the '82 MFSL this week and cannot stop playing it! I will admit that on a few tracks the "hiss" does get my attention (which I do not find on the Allan Dell UK CD). However, overall it is a lush, soft, succulent sounding record.
     
  7. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Lucky, lucky me...I recently adopted two monos both from Scranton (one a D3 and the other a D5). The D3 is in pretty decent shape and the D7 is a beautiful NM. All I can say is "WOW!" As is the case with our host's beautifully redone "Love is the Thing" by Nat on SACD, the difference between the mono and the stereo versions is amazing! Even more so in the case of "Where Are You" because of the definite absence of reverb in mono.

    An exceptional example is "I'm a Fool to Want You". In mono it sounds almost like a different take because it's so dry. And (unlike the mono edition of "Only the Lonely") Mr. S appears to be closer to the mike and his diction and phrasing stands out superbly. In one phrase I actually thought we had another yet-unknown alternate take but upon closer observation, it is something that gets totally lost in all of the reverb of the stereo recording.

    This stuff is truly amazing to me!!!!!:D
     
  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Yeah, the mono on this album is very nice. I don't prefer it over the stereo, but I like it a lot. A lot! Very different experience. The stereo is like you are in lonesome misery in a train station; the mono is like you are depressed and curled up, sobbing in a closet, and both are valid, human experiences we've all gone through.
     
    Bob Belvedere likes this.
  9. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Funny, I have felt kinda the same way about "Only the Lonely". To me the mono is a less personal experience...almost like "mood music" because it's so vast and Mr. S isn't closely miked. The stereo is so damn personal and you can literally hear the agony in his voice that it can be too much at times. (I remember late one winter night taking a walk thru my Hollywood neighborhood in the pouring rain. Seeing the people huddled in doorways and those less-fortunate trying to survive the elements. When I got home and dried off I played the stereo LP. It really overwhelmed me!!!!)

    Back to "Where Are You?"... I, too, prefer the MFSL stereo LP overall.
     
  10. SinatraFan

    SinatraFan Well-Known Member

    I like the use of reverb on this album, really gives off that lonesome and walking around town at night feeling, but that sounds interesting, Paul. Will be on the lookout for a mono copy. I only have the stereo LP and Walsh CD.
     
    Bob Belvedere likes this.
  11. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
  12. SinatraFan

    SinatraFan Well-Known Member

  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    On Wednesday afternoon, I was at Aladdin Antiques in Bellingham, WA, and lo and behold, for $5, they had a D1/D1 mono pressing, so I snagged it! Haven't played it yet, but will report back once I have. :)

    Matt
     
    McLover and Simon A like this.
  14. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Fingers crossed for you.....
     
  15. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    What do you think of it, Matt? I really think it is the only version I've heard that is on a par with the 2 track reel overall, though obviously different with the separate recording/mic setups, etc. There may be other cuts out there that can match or beat it, but I'm not aware of them.
     
  16. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Timely pointer to related discussion:
    [thread=294645]Three Upcoming Sinatra/Capitol Titles on MFSL LP & SACD[/thread]​
     
  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    I have a new, non-Quicktime-required, iTunes- and lawyer-friendly version of the WHERE ARE YOU comparison pages, viewable here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1957_-_Where_Are_You_3.html

    If you see anything that needs tweaking, isn't working, etc., please PM or e-mail me so I can fix it.

    Thanks!
    Matt
     
  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    On the pages linked above, I mentioned that the UK CD didn't have the dynamic range of the 1991 remix CD. FWIW, here are dynamic range comparisons between the UK 1998 CD (original mix), the 1991 CD (remix by Larry Walsh), and my CD-R that uses the ZD-17 reel-to-reel for most tracks, and the MFSL LP for tracks 2, 3, and 8 (which are not on the reel):
     

    Attached Files:

  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Anybody know when this album first had the song title list added to the front cover? Here are three examples: USA SN-series reissue, early '80s; Dutch (same as UK, but w/DMM mastering) Alan Dell series, 1984; Japanese CD, 1988. Note that the content of the text varies slightly from edition to edition. (IIRC, the 1998 UK CD set mirrors the middle example below, less the DMM logo.)

    I'm guessing the SN-series was the first to do this, then the Alan Dell series used that cover and added the "Etc." because it had 12 songs (as compared to just 10 on the SN-series), and then the Japanese version again tweaked the SN series, this time just re-typesetting wtih all 12 songs listed.

    Matt
    SinatraWhereAreYouEtcSHTV.jpg SinatraWhereAreYouEtc.SHTV.jpg SinatraWhereAreYouTextCDTransformedSHTV.jpg
     
  20. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    MLutthans, my friend who is the Yahoo reel to reel list moderator and my copy of "The Stars In Stereo" both have the same tape defect. My friend has the "Where Are You" two track tape. It is the best Stereo of the lot in my opinion. I like the side logo Rainbow label mono LP a lot. My copy is D3/D4 deadwax.
     
  21. mikrt17

    mikrt17 Life has surface noise.

    Location:
    BROADSTAIRS UK
    I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but I have a CD of 'Where Are You' mastered by Larry Walsh from 1991 but track 12 'Baby Won't You Please Come Home' has the string intro missing it's not an indexing problem and the track starts with the horns that follow the string intro has anybody else experienced this problem, was there a faulty batch issued in 1991 before it was dscovered.
     
  22. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    It's been mentioned before, and it *is* an indexing problem. Track 12 starts in the 3:50–3:58 section of Track 11. The strings are there. It's on all pressings; never corrected AFAIK. See [post=6058357]post #80[/post] and following discussion earlier in this thread:

     
  23. mikrt17

    mikrt17 Life has surface noise.

    Location:
    BROADSTAIRS UK
    Thanks so much BobF for clearing this up for me.......eagerly looking forward to the new re-mastering in November now.
     
  24. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    +1 (Cross-ref link: [thread=294645]Three Upcoming Sinatra/Capitol Titles on MFSL LP & SACD[/thread])

    This is my favorite Sinatra album of all time, and I'm really hoping the upcoming MoFi remaster is the original mono version.
     
  25. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa I'm an ear sitting in the sky

    Location:
    USA
    Yes I would prfer the mono versions of all the albums. Maybe a Sinatra "mono box"?
     

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