Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: "Where Are You?" (1957 album)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Jan 13, 2010.

  1. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    Assuming the digital format in question was 16/44.1. Soundstream and other specs were around in those days not to mention 44.8.
     
  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    I've added two new clips to the mono page:

    •A D7 LP mono clip. (Look for the photo of the Capitol rainbow label.)
    •Thanks to our friend and fellow member Howlinrock, a clip from the CD layer of the new MFSL Hybrid SACD, which is utterly fantastic, undoubtedly the best the mono mix has ever sounded, and maybe the best this album (in any form) has sounded.

    See here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1957_-_Where_Are_You_3.html
     
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  3. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    The D7 doesn't seem up to the D1 to my ears. It's not bad, but not in the same class. It's too midrangey and dull in comparison.

    The Mobile Fidelity mono hybrid sounds very nice, better than the D7, and in some ways better than even the D1, but I don't think it totally beats that one. Nicely done...
     
  4. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Only just saw this update to your page with the SACD clip, Matt (I'll figure out how to use the search function on this new setup sooner or later I suppose). It sounds terrific. I may purchase it just for the CD level of the disc.
     
  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    I agree -- that new mastering sounds fantastic, with much better dynamics than my old D7/D11 pressing, and tone that is as good if not better. I need to dig out the D1/D1 copy I have and check the dynamics there, but my personal opinion is that the new MFSL may be the best the mono version has ever sounded, and is well worth purchasing. "Two thumbs up." We can debate which is the absolute, 100% best version, but I think it's clear that the MFSL is at least "really, really good."
     
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  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
  7. TLMusic

    TLMusic Musician & record collector

    I was pleasantly surprised at how the Mofi vinyl Where Are You needledrop sample turned out. It even sounded good played back on the old Pioneer receiver in my breakfast room.

    It's worth noting that the record used for the sample has been "hot rodded". The vinyl got two washings with Audio Intelligent fluids to get the inner sleeve residue off. And, I enlarged the spindle hole so the record could be properly centered and play in tune. It does sound nice.
     
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  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Wow, I never realized that the 10-song, retitled version was around for as long as it apparently was! Looks like roughly 1970-1980 or so.
    !CBWtoMg!2k~$(KGrHqZ,!m!Ez+zeJckCBNHQjzZsGg~~_1.JPG $T2eC16hHJHYE9nzpgImbBR!zNCmhWg~~60_1.JPG $(KGrHqV,!rkFCW62i)q7BQu8T7TkJw~~60_57.jpg
     
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  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    The MFSL mono LP (data shown at right, below, based on my un-futzed transfer to digital) has a higher DR rating than the new CD layer on the Hybrid SACD:
    Screen shot 2013-02-10 at 11.33.49 PM.jpg
     
  10. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il

    Great work, as always, Matt. I'm delighted to hear that the new MoFi LP sounds so good (as does the SACD, of which I've only heard the CD layer).

    I'm curious to see some comparisons between the new vinyl and various Gray label pressings that folks around here have enjoyed and praised.
     
  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    From the MFSL/Sinatra thread:


    Yes! I've e-mailed two of the Sinatra nuts here about this before actually choosing to post about it myself. I wanted to see if their copies had that, too, and if it bugged the heck out of them as much as it bugged me.

    As far as it being "intact as it was on the first release," I've got copies going back to a D1, and none of them create any sort of "issue" where this is concerned. Same with the MFSL mono LP -- it's not bothersome. On the Hybrid disc? It's bothersome, and it's oddly done, too, as tracks actually transition to "digital zero" very abruptly.

    Back when the Mercury Living Presence reissues hit 23 years ago, they realized that to just "cut off" between tracks was a no-no. Somehow, that message has been lost, lo these many years later.

    Also, prior to track 8 only, there are two distinct "revolutions" (as the reel rotated) of audible print-through. Odd that several tracks were reduced to "digital zero" between tracks, yet this one was allowed to just breathe through, unimpeded. (Listen to the gap between 7 and 8.) Oh, heck, here's that transition and a lot of other blah blah blah. Have a listen, then correct me as needed. I'm likely way off the mark:

    http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1957_-_Where_Are_You_Addendum.html
     
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  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your Host Your Host

    Just a note (if anybody cares), the original tape of WHERE ARE YOU has no leader between tracks. It's biased 111 tape as is all Capitol album masters of that era.
     
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  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Cool! That's what I suspected, and it's mentioned on that linked page. Thanks for confirming. :)
     
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  14. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    I gave a thorough, uninterrupted listening to first the MoFi LP and then to the SACD back-to-back. Tough choice as both are damn near superb. However, the edge goes to the LP (IMHO). Just friggin' BEAUTIFUL!

    Now...one of these days I'm gonna take the SACD mono of both "Where Are You?" and Mr. Cole's "Love is the Thing" and do a back-to-back listening test. However, I pretty much already know which one is the winner there. :shh:
     
  15. mikrt17

    mikrt17 Life has surface noise.

    Location:
    BROADSTAIRS UK
    So are you saying that they used blank magnetic between the songs instead of leader tape if that is so then the print through between tracks 7 & 8 that Bob mentioned makes sense.
     
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  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
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  17. SteelyTom

    SteelyTom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, Mass.
    So... Is it fair for this all-digital guy to conclude that the MoFi SACD is the definitive digital version of this record, besting the Larry Walsh CD, among other things?
     
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  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    I'd say those are the only two that are in the running, at least, and remember that these are actually completely different RECORDINGS of the same performance, not just subtly-different mixes, so it's really a matter of preference. Clips of the Walsh CD are here and here, if that helps.
     
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  19. SteelyTom

    SteelyTom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, Mass.
    Thanks for the feedback/clarification!
     
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  20. riddlemay

    riddlemay Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Jumping in late here, so I hope I'm not repeating something that's been asked, but...when you say "completely different recordings," do you mean completely different performances? Or the same performances captured with a different microphone set-up and recording chain simultaneous with the stereo set-up?

    Also (veering a little off-topic) which other Sinatra albums recorded in stereo are mono in the new SACD releases? And which of these Sinatra SACDs are actually available for purchase now (as opposed to pre-order)? I get conflicting information from the sites of the usual vendors. Thanks.
     
  21. Tom Campbell

    Tom Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Yes, separate mono and stereo set-ups recording simultaneously.
     
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  22. Jack White

    Jack White Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada

    Approximate dates:

    lime green label: 1969 - 1971.

    orange label: 1972 - 1976.

    green budget label: 1977 - 1980.
     
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  23. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    This is the thread to watch on that front: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...sinatra-capitol-titles-on-mfsl-lp-sacd.294645

    The three titles that are mono releases even though stereo versions exist are: "Sings for Only the Lonely" which has been out on gold CD (not SACD) since 2008, and is still available; "Where Are You," which is available now on SACD; and Come Fly with Me, which is announced but not yet available on SACD. Those are also the only three albums that used different mic complements for their mono and stereo set-ups.

    Matt
     
  24. riddlemay

    riddlemay Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Thanks, Matt and Tom.
     
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  25. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    I had the orange label. It came as a two-fer with another LP (can't recall). It was my 1st introduction to "Where Are You".
     

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