Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: Swing Easy! - 1954*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Nov 28, 2009.

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  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    A new sound comparison page in the ongoing Sinatra series is complete. Please see here.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Nov 28, 2009
    #1
  2. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    Whilst I agree with Matt on the winner the MFP again comes very close for me, this again shows the great Value of the MFP CD and anyone who doesn't have a copy should seek one out.

    Matt I notice no sample from the UK 21 CD set, I don't think it matters for this album as it wouldn't come near the winners but for the other albums I think it's essential to compare samples from the UK set with others.
     
    hodgo, Nov 28, 2009
    #2
  3. salleno

    salleno Forum Resident

    Location:
    So. Cal.
    Your doing such an awesome job with these! I'm sure it will come in handy for many Sinatraphiles.

    Although I love my needledrop, I would like to find that MFP CD.
     
    salleno, Nov 28, 2009
    #3
  4. salleno

    salleno Forum Resident

    Location:
    So. Cal.
    It's here:

    http://web.mac.com/mlutthans/iWeb/Site 37/1954 - Swing Easy2.html

    Second half, clip 4.
     
    salleno, Nov 28, 2009
    #4
  5. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    hodgo, Nov 28, 2009
    #5
  6. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il

    :thumbsup:
     
    rangerjohn, Nov 28, 2009
    #6
  7. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    Out of all the samples, it's the later (pictured) Japanese version for me. It's got the best attributes of the other good (dry) versions, plus a nice little extra warmth and midrange presence.

    Of the CD's the MFP is pretty decent sounding, though a little glassy.
     
    Greg1954, Nov 28, 2009
    #7
  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    I think that if I had the Japanese LP and MMM had sent a clip of the MFSL, the score may have been reversed. The two come across to me as both being utterly excellent and near-perfect. If we were to have a Christmas party at MMM's house and listen to both LPs on high-quality equipment -- with no digital step in the loop -- the results could be reversed, easily, or we could decide they are an absolute tie. Both are good.

    I think some of that "glassy" quality on the CD may be due to what happens whenever there is an "s" or other heavily sibilant sound. On those sounds, the "fake stereo" component kicks in to a much higher degree. (I think this whole problem stems from playing mono source tapes on a stereo machine.) As a result, certain components in FS's vocal delivery come across in a bit of a strange way. Summed to mono or played from one channel (as on my sample), it is a bit reduced, but it's still there.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Nov 28, 2009
    #8
  9. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    My copy (that Matt used) has a different, later label than shown - the mid '80's black/rainbow. I imagine the sound is basically the same on the purple label - it's the same issue, just an earlier pressing.
     
    MMM, Nov 28, 2009
    #9
  10. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    I think I agree that the Walsh CD uses it's own unique reverbation, and is not from a source that the other reverbed versions use.

    Though I have to wonder why he chose to leave it true, 1 channel mono in this case unlike 'Wee Small Hours' or 'Songs For Swingin' Lovers.'
     
    Greg1954, Nov 28, 2009
    #10
  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Just listened to the Walsh again on headphones in my office, and I'm starting to re-think that one. It's hard to explain clearly, but to my ears the characteristics of the 1962 reverb sound evident on the Walsh. It does not sound like digital reverb to my ears. I wonder if:

    1. He used the reverbed tapes, but EQd them as best he could, and
    2. The compression I was hearing on some pressings was added by EMI in the UK.

    Thoughts?
    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Nov 28, 2009
    #11
  12. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    It does to me too.

    What I perceive as a lesser amount of reverb on Walsh's is what confuses me. His EQ doesn't sound that radically different to account for it.:shrug: It's not liked he went and whacked off the high end, al la Norberg.
     
    Greg1954, Nov 28, 2009
    #12
  13. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    Which may lend credence to the idea of his having used the 1962 tapes.
    Since those already contained reverb, there wasn't a need for the sooper-dooper digitial stereo reverb unit to be lugged out of the backseat...
     
    Greg1954, Nov 28, 2009
    #13
  14. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    The Eq, or lack of Eq (and compression/limiting), on the Walsh '87 might be throwing you off vs. some of the other versions that use the tampered tapes as a source. Some of the old pressings have a good bit more midrange/upper midrange IIRC, and also can be cut less dynamic, both of which can possibly bring out the echo more.
     
    MMM, Nov 29, 2009
    #14
  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Next Up: Songs for Swingin' Lovers. Anybody have any interesting samples? If so, please send them my way so I can start piecing things together. I've got (or have coming):

    MFSL LP
    Walsh
    UK 84 Dell
    Gray label (Scranton D2/D7)
    Capitol EP
    MFSL CD
    UK 1998 from 21-disc set

    Let's go ahead and do "I've Got You Under My Skin."

    Any input is much appreciated by myself and others.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Nov 29, 2009
    #15
  16. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .


    Added compression could indeed give the reverb 'tail' a little more prominence. If that makes sense.

    The Walsh doesn't sound as compressed as some of the others.
     
    Greg1954, Nov 29, 2009
    #16
  17. bgiliberti

    bgiliberti Will You Be My Neighbor?

    Location:
    USA
    Could anyone contribute the Songs for Swingin' Lovers sold currently by Amazon UK? It's probably labeled "Walsh" but it could be from a different (and hopefully better) master, like the MFP SwingEasy/SFYL, also credited to "Walsh" but obviously from a superior source.
     
    bgiliberti, Nov 29, 2009
    #17
  18. musicmax

    musicmax New Member

    Location:
    Mount Holly, NC, USA
    Ben (or someone....)

    I see a couple of different SFYL and SE CDs on the UK Amazon site. There appear to be discs that have the two original 10" albums combined (16 tracks) and then discs that have only one of the albums in its 12-track form. What is/are the correct catalog number(s) for the "right" Music For Pleasure disc(s)? Thanks!
     
    musicmax, Dec 1, 2009
    #18
  19. ClausH

    ClausH Senior Member

    Location:
    Denmark
    0777 7 48470 2 5.

    The one Amazon UK is currently selling is the correct one. Their tracklist is wrong.
     
    ClausH, Dec 1, 2009
    #19
  20. musicmax

    musicmax New Member

    Location:
    Mount Holly, NC, USA
    Thanks Claus!
     
    musicmax, Dec 1, 2009
    #20
  21. Dave Garrett

    Dave Garrett Senior Member

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Well, I made the mistake of ordering this from an Amazon (US) marketplace seller. Not surprisingly, despite the disc being offered under Amazon's listing for what was clearly the MFP CD, I received a US pressing in a mini-LP style cardboard sleeve (with no liner). Not sure, but I'm guessing it was from the 2007 Capitol Concept Albums box set, which means it's the usual Norberg master (I haven't listened to it yet to confirm). :cry:

    Not worth returning, as I only paid about three bucks for it. Guess I'll do what I should've done in the first place and just order the MFP disc from Amazon UK.
     
    Dave Garrett, Dec 10, 2009
    #21
  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    I bought one last week from this guy for cheap and it was the correct MFP variety.

    By the way, it seems a little odd to me that the MFP disc is strictly called "Swing Easy," with no mention of SFYL on the spine, disc, or tracklisting. It only comes up in the notes by Pete Welding, and the reproduction of the cover artwork.

    Matt

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Dec 10, 2009
    #22
  23. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    The mini box set was released in 2004. Amazon dates, like their track listings, are highly unreliable. Undoubtedly, what you received was broken out of that box set.
     
    Bob F, Dec 10, 2009
    #23
  24. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    You'll notice that those liner notes are a verbatim copy of the ones that came with the 1987 US issue. In particular, besides the incorrect mastering credit to Larry Walsh, they mention restoring the track order to its historically accurate sequence with SFYL first. Obviously, that is not the case for the British MFP disc, which follows the order of the 1955 Capitol LP, with SE first and shown most prominently on the front cover.
     
    Bob F, Dec 10, 2009
    #24
  25. tlake6659

    tlake6659 Senior Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Any reason to keep the Walsh Swing Easy/Songs for Young Lovers twofer if I was to get the Music for Pleasure U.K. CD?
     
    tlake6659, Mar 5, 2012
    #25
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