Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Mar 29, 2010.
Great interview, You're hired!! Can you start Monday?
You can hear mp3 clips that very strongly resemble the actual CD sound via the Concord website here:
Also, see here.
does the individual "Sinatra & Company" CD sound better than the "suitcase" version? IIRC the Jobim tracks have some problems with bass overload (I think we discussed this once on the old DCC board).
I only own these CD tracks in the suitcase and this new version, as I don't have the old single-disc release. Sorry!
Sinatra - Jobim Complete Reprise Recordings, part two..
The disk is out now.
The old thread turned into a bitch fest (partially my fault).
Let's talk about the music, songs, etc. now.
shame to lose the good information in that discussion though...
I tried to keep a positive spin on the whole situation.
I'm buying the CD just for the cover. Imagine how that would look 12" x 12"!!!!!
Proof in 20 seconds that Sinatra is one cool dude
(it's between .50 secs and 1 min 10)
Well, OK, but I'm having a bit of a change of heart. In that other thread, I tried to throw a positive spin on this new release. Admittedly, I hadn't given it as thorough a listen as some others - basically just skimmed through several songs and posted about the fact that at least the awful fake reverb was toned down a great deal.
I had also essentially just listened in the car, without benefit of having my other copies for comparison.
Well - I just did a quick a-b between "Agua de Beber" from an old Euro-pressing of SINATRA AND COMPANY and compared it to the new 2010 disc.
As mentioned in the other thread, there seems to be a lot of stereo-narrowing going on, and this track can be used as a great example.
On both my original LP of SINATRA AND COMPANY and the CD of same from Germany, Mr. Jobim's vocals are panned hard left - "Bah-bah-doh". On the new disc, he's sort of vaguely right of center, and the whole wide soundstage is shrunken into something halfway between mono and stereo.
So given the evidence that Matt presented, and my own two ears listening to the shrunken stereo stage, I'm now going to have to amend my appraisal of this disc to not recommended.
So, if you need to have the disc for the three "rare" tracks, then do so, but refer to older pressings for the common tracks - particularly if you care about preserving history.
...changed opinion, online...
Yeah. Hopefully Matt can at least re-post his observations about the missing edits. That wasn't bitching, it was useful information.
I'll wait for mine to arrive to give a final opinion, but about the edits posted before, my thoughts still remain the same: not a big deal.
But, I know I wont be selling my EOTC SInatra/Jobin or my WG Sinatra & Company as I had hoped to do.
To summarize, the missed edits from the original 1967 tracks are:
1. GIRL FROM IPENEMA: First time through "goes walking [cut] and when she passes each one she passes goes [cut back] 'ahh...'" (0:28)
2. GIRL FROM IPENEMA: A cracked note on "Day" ("but each day when she walks to the sea"). (1:11)
3. CORCOVADO (Quiet Nights): There's a bad note in the upright bass at 2:24 that was fixed in the original mix with a cut a few seconds earlier at "Oh, my love."
4. IF YOU NEVER COME TO ME: The flute solo that starts around 1:24 has one phrase that is different. I think this was done to dodge a guitar chord that was very mildly funky on this distinctly non-funk album.
5. At 1:48 in BAUBLES, BANGLES, and BEADS, Frank has an ugly little vocal clam that was edited out on previous versions.
For the 7 1969 tracks from the SINATRA & COMPANY album, there are no missed edits that I could find, and I haven't checked the three "rare" tracks yet.
I am still waiting on my copy to arrive, but I decided to spin my mono copy of this one this morning and what an incredible half hour this really is. I don't know what makes it so satisfying and it might be my single fave Reprise.
I don't remember when exactly I bought that mono vinyl, but it was from Oldies on Bleeker, I think it was $8...and its in really great shape...worth hearing in mono as well as the original wide stereo mix as well. heck its nice to have choices now...
IIRC, the mono was mixed from the 4-track, just like the stereo was. (On previous albums, the mono versions were uniquely sourced "live" during the sessions.) Since the edits clearly were not done by slicing and dicing the 4-track tapes (at least on some songs), but done at the two-track stage, I wonder if the mono LP has all the same edits as the stereo? Hmm.....
lemme know if you need samples...
Just ordered my copy, more when it arrives.
I agree! Now that I am back into vinyl I have been scoping out some of the Sinatra LP's in mono. I have been pleasantly surprised with most of what I've obtained. I am still looking for that "perfect" copy of "Come Fly with Me" in mono. I have two (one gray label) but they have a bit of wear. I have a mono of "That's Life" enroute and I would kill for "FAS & ACJ" in mono. I'll find it yet.
I fear this doesn't exist...
You probably knew this -- just confirming -- but last year's Capitol vinyl re-issue of COME FLY WITH ME, even though all the labeling screamed "STEREO" was, in fact, mono.
Back to Jobim.....
Yeah, since I don't think I'll be shelling out for the Concord FAS/ACJ I'd like to find a mono too. Maybe it'll become my final go-to copy.
And some of those other Reprise monos are great. Try Academy Award Winners in mono. Collect them all!
Matt, I just pulled out the CD transfer of a mono F-1021 I bought sealed in 2003. I must say that I don't like it quite as much as I did then. The sound is exceptional on some of the tracks, but there are a few stinkers. "Dindi" in particular sounds like a dub of a dub of a dub and has some weird phase/NR things going on. For the most part, the mono sounds warm and yummy, but you'll notice that they made even heavier use of a de-esser than for the stereo mix. The edits seem to be the same - the only difference I noticed is that "Meditation" seems to have one or two additional seconds edited out in the instrumental break.
Shame, Dindi is such a gorgeous song, it has to sound good. It just...has to.
No one...but NO ONE has nailed down "Dindi" the way Mr. S does. That is one song where you truly can feel the tenderness in his voice.
I hear that Miss Nancy is all but conceding that no edits were used on the new CD and that the decision came down from "the powers that be". Can anyone confirm this?
I was seriously just about to post that bit of info.
Nancy alluded on the Sinatra Family Forums that Concord simply chose not to include the intercuts/edits, which implies they were aware of them. Hmmm...if that is the case, then my opinion of this new release changes ever so slightly. The issue here no longer remains a matter of carelessness on Concord's part and instead boils down to them making an executive decision to simply present this album differently than it has been since its 1967 release.
Again, if they chose not to include the intercuts/edits, then I believe such a decision should have been a part of the press release/album descriptions. Something to the effect of:
"...utilizing the original, unedited master tapes, this deluxe edition of the acclaimed Sinatra/Jobim sessions reveals previously unheard insights into one of the finest collaboration in American popular music..."
OK, so my makeshift copy isn't great, but at least it would have given us a better understanding of what we were all in for; Not a reissue of Francis Albert Sinatra & Antonio Carlos Jobim plus ten additional tracks for its intended follow up, but something just a little bit different.
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